Over head router vs router table

[reible]

Hey Chuck,

I have a feeling you do a lot more jigs and fixture then you even think you're doing. The sliding table is a fixture that you use quite offen right? And as I recall you made a fixture for horizontal operations on the OPR... In fact everytime you pull some pieces together to do an operation it becomes a jig. Some jigs become dedicated to operations while others are building blocks for other operations.

That was one of the things I like about Nick, I think he was a jig and fixture man and showed that in his presentations. Love to do it or hate to do it you still find they are needed for a lot of operations. I just came across a collection of shopsmith 500 jigs an fixtures that I just can't seem to part with... a lot of them were ones I built to learn to use the shopsmith over 30 years ago... now how can I part with them??? When you start do patterns that too is a form of the same... be it for pin routing or guide bushings or hand routing, drilling, sawing....

Speaking of marking... sometime on one of your projects give the way I showed a shot... I too use to mark everything but for me this newer medthod turned out to be a better way. Can't say I came up with this on my own, the router workshop guys made me do it that way, I didn't want to but after I tried it a few times they won me over. Those darn guys made me change my whole way of looking at projects.


The incra and jointech systems let you do things that well, only a few experts would ever try without them. For those interested in these systems, and, want to do some of the fancy joints, it makes in to something even us advanced woodworkers can do... something like a double double through dovetail or a corner post eagletail would take you many many tries and count less hours of setup time on any system unless it is designed to for the purpose... and the incra/jointech are.

For those interested I would check the used books online and look for the 1993 Perry McDaniel Incra Jig Projects & Techniques Sorry no ISBN on the copy I have. Doing this sort of thing is not for everyone but the few that are... well it lets you fly. I'm sure some of you wondered how people did this stuff... the book shows you.

While pondering that here is a little something I spent hours making a jig for a couple of years ago. This was my first attempt at using the jig and as you can see I was just a little off... This was for some picture frames, two dovetails wider wood... sorry no pictures of them but you get the idea of how it would work. I was since able to buy a real jig for doing this and am looking forward to trying it again using that jig.

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Ed

[charlese]

You are right on Ed! Just can't get away from jigs! Yes, making slots in the OPR table and making a fence are indeed jigs. Also the sliding table. This does not negate at all the fact that I despise making special purpose jigs for a special operation. There are many places I can avoid special purpose jigs by using the OPR. Attached is a photo of my first dovetail drawer, made on the OPR without the use of a jig. To make the tails, I just clamped the drawer sides together and onto the table then raised the table so the bit passed through the wood.

Yes, I had to make a jig in order to do box joints, but rather than fiddle around manufacturing one of those micro adjustable things I used a simple wood board with a couple of slots so it could fit onto the miter gauge.

I did build up a very functional fence for the router table. Guess it is a jig. Have to admit it makes the work a lot easier with absolutely no sawdust mess.

So you're right - I make and use more jigs than I want to admit.

[reible]

Hi,

The first jig you pictured is much the same thing I've used for years. I make them on the fly as it seems easier then to make them adjustable. I think I have two "standard" ones in my junk somewhere??? Super easy jig to make and use. This also works for table saws and is what I used when I built my under shopsmith storage drawers. This is one of my favorite joints and I like how they look on your drawers/containers in the background!

If I were building something like you have pictured (box joints in the background) I might go with the oak-park system I have. If you go to:

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=boxj--

and click the the video demo to see it in action.

If your system can't play the video go to:

http://www.routerworkshop.com/boxjoints.html

They have a walk though of initial set up to cutting the joints with pictures and text. I've have had very good results doing it this way as well. (I'd like to add the "Dovetail Liner" to my collection since I see it now on sale... but my woodworking funds dryed up back in July, darn).

I also have one of those bench jigs for doing dovetails and box joints up to I think it is 16". It too works good but the setup takes a while since I have to keep it boxed to save space in the shop and I don't use it very often anymore.

Of course the Incra and Jointech can do these too, a big advantage they have is when doing odd spacings and odd sized cuts. The step and repeat style jixtures can't do that very well.

OK enough on that.... now we can go to the dovetail stuff....

I think I lost you on how you did the dovetails. Could you go over that again with horz/vert table info and how you controlled the length and depth of cuts for sides and fronts? And, how are you moving what table to make the cuts?? Since this is a sliding dovetail, on a table one never changes the bit height, are you able to do the same with your set-up?

Looking at the picture the joint looks asymmetricial, is that the case or just the wood gain tricking my eyes?

Ed

[charlese]

...OK enough on that.... now we can go to the dovetail stuff....
I think I lost you on how you did the dovetails. Could you go over that again with horz/vert table info and how you controlled the length and depth of cuts for sides and fronts? And, how are you moving what table to make the cuts?? Since this is a sliding dovetail, on a table one never changes the bit height, are you able to do the same with your set-up?

Looking at the picture the joint looks asymmetricial, is that the case or just the wood gain tricking my eyes?

Ed

Hi Ed - Was going to answer last night, but had to turn off the computer and watch election results.

Thanks for the tip on the Oak Park. I've put the link in my favorites for future reference.

The Photo re: "Back of the jig" shows that I ran a pencil around the miter gauge before taking the jig off. This gave me a location to start from on other set ups. I had to take off and replace the jig 4 times during the construction of making my curved top tool box.

Now to dovetails: Started with the OPR in horizontal configuration - To cut the tails of the dovetails I placed the drawer sides flat face down on the OPR table. Stacked the four sides on top of each other with the ends protruding off of the table toward the horizontal router, and clamped them with hand screws. I aligned the bit at the correct depth, with the smallest part of the bit at the edge of the boards, by adjusting the router depth horizontally. Then I raised the SS table, using the table height adjustment, so the bit passed through all four sides. Of course there was a 5th (1/8" thick) board below the bottom side to prevent any tearout.

The trick in this operation is to keep a somewhat tightened (snugged) table raising lock while raising the table, so the saw table does not wobble as it can do when loose.

Using this procedure, one can make any configuration of pin holes he wants!

The spaces between the pins were routed using a straight bit on the OPR in vertical mode. Used a chisel to clean out the slope of the pins to fit the tails.

No I had no sliding dovetail - The joints at the front of the drawers were a simple half blind dovetail, only unlike using a dovetail jig, these joints have flat tails on both sides.

Actually the center tail is dead centered. I hadn't noticed that the photos indicate it may be a bit low until you call my attention to it.

[reible]

Thanks Chuck I have in mind how you did it now... You really had your work cut out for you and I respect how difficult it must have been doing that way. I had not given the table issue a thought as I have never used it to mill in that way... worse yet I'm picturing a sliding jig that could be made....

Interesting how the grain or maybe it is the picture makes it look like it isn't centered. I guessed that would not be the case but thought if it were you might have an interesting story as to why you did it that way...

Ed