Shopsmith Machine, painted green, Mark 2

[JPG]

Penetrol paint additive to seal pits from rusting.

[JPG]

Penetrol paint additive to seal pits from rusting.

It has recently been 'revealed' that it is essentially boiled linseed oil. Sure gums up on the shelf like BLO.

[crufone]

Russ, JPG and Ed,
Russ, thanks for taking the time to address my questions. I wonder if the product you used to fill in the rust pitted ways was JB Weld. They make a product for ferrous metals and also aluminum. It is a heavily filled epoxy putty and when cured does allow for some shaping and or sanding.
The replacement tubes from the mfg. are some $154.00 for one plus shipping. I could source from a local metal supplier if need be.
The Mark 2 machine I got doesn't have the legs, so not to worry about their spreading.

ED & JPG is JB Weld the product used to fill in pitted wasy on Shopsmith machines? If not could you suggest something else?

I thank you all for your assistance over the past few days.
Michael

[edma194]

The Mark 2 castings are thinner than on early or later Mark 5 type machines. My Mark 2 had the tilt lock screw broken out entirely, but I have the piece or the casting and the screw. I might try brazing them together, or maybe just gluing because I don't plan to use the machine. I'd bolt in some support if I wanted it to be fully functional.

First thing I'd do on the way tubes is use Evapo-Rust on them, then smooth the surface with fine grit. Resort to a stone on a Dremel tool if there are tough raised bits. Once smooth see if the headstock slides well enough. Then seal it to prevent more rust in the pits with something like Penetrol or even WD-40 if you don't mind the smell.

I think if you have pits in the way tubes deep enough that filling is a necessity then you should replace the tubes. You can get 10' of 1-1/2" EMT conduit locally for less than $42 at Lowes (still high compared to just a few years ago). It has a nominal OD of 1.74" instead of 1.75". Close enough, I use it on my sanding shorty which still has 40" tubes and it handles the weight of a conventional Mark 5 headstock just as well stock tubes. I haven't noticed any flexing or excess vibration. You might want to plug the ends with dowels for strength so they don't get dented by the set screws. And if you use them as bench tubes you need to be sure they don't get crushed by the clamp under the casting.

As for parts, if you really want a complete restoration or fully functional Mark 2 I'd suggest look for whole machines to buy for parts. It will be difficult to find one with an intact belt cover I think. I don't have an extension table, mine came with a Mark 5 tailstock, but I have what I think is the tailstock attachment for the original extension table. If I can get a good set of dimensions I could get my buddies at the HVAC supply to fold up something for me out of 14 gauge steel, or aluminum if they have something thick enough available.

Same advice for Mark 5 parts. I have more than enough of most Mark 5 parts because I bought several beaters for low low prices. Got a lot of accessories that way also.

Best of luck with your effort. Not sure what you plan to do with the Mark 2 but it could help to have your Mark 5 fully refurbished and functional. Glad you found this forum, it's the best service and engineering information available for any Shopsmith product.

Russ, maybe you can answer this: My Mark 2 has wooden bench 'tubes' so I can only guess that the metal ones are 1.75" also. Is it possible or practical to make wooden versions to replace the metal tubes, or vice versa? Were different castings or leg parts used?

[DLB]

...The replacement tubes from the mfg. are some $154.00 for one plus shipping. I could source from a local metal supplier if need be...

In addition to other recommendations, used Mark 5/V/7 bench and way tubes that appear to be in good condition are frequently listed on eBay. Watch shipping costs, as they vary dramatically from one seller to another.

- David

[chapmanruss]

Ed,

As for the metal Bench Tubes or Wood Rails, either could be fabricated. To the best of my knowledge, they use the same legs so both have the holes for bolting the legs and bench ends on in the same places. Both of the Mark 2s I own have the metal Bench Tubes which are 1-3/4" in diameter. As far as I can tell and you would know better having the wood Rails, they are similar in size to 2 x 3 stock with a slightly rounded top. The Mark 2 was also sold without the bench parts with instructions included to build your own bench. Kind of like the Model 10E and 10ER. I have seen one Mark 2 (shown below) with wood Rails that was for sale and although they looked in good condition, I prefer the metal Bench Tubes. I didn't get to buy that one because the sellers brother decided he wanted it. Interesting that it had the tilt lock area of the bench end (P/N 4200 Tie) casting broken around the screw hole.

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In the picture above you can see the extruded Aluminum Extension Table Bar. Screws attach it to the posts which are threaded in the top end. The "step" of the table provides its own fence as the Rip Fence is not used on the extension table.

As best as I can tell the earlier Mark 2's had the metal Bench Tubes while the later Mark 2's came with the wood Rails. The color of the Mark 2 went from green to gray before the Mark 5 changed from the Goldie to gray.

Two reasons I wanted that one was it had the Mark 2 Retractable Casters and had the Tailstock attachment. It would have been my second Mark 2 purchased. As you said it is easier to buy "whole" machines than it is to find parts. That is what I was doing to get a complete Mark 2 restored. Another interesting thing about that Mark 2 was the non-OEM pulleys.

For reference the picture below is the Tailstock Assembly P/N 400019.

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Michael,

As has already been suggested I too would use Penetrol to protect those smaller pitted areas. Thanks, JPG, for remembering the name. If there are large pits do consider replacing the Way Tubes. Trying to fill the pitted area and get that smoothed out evenly without removing any base metal of the Way Tube would be challenging. As David pointed out Mark 5/V Way tubes come up for sale often and Model 10E & 10ER Way Tubes can replace the Mark 5/V Way Tubes too. Near the end of the Model 10ER production they used the same thinner walled Way Tubes that the Mark 5 uses.

In your first post you said you have a Mark V. You also mention You have a Mark 2 not using the Roman Numeral II. You probably noticed I use both the Roman Numeral V and the number 5 when referring to the Mark 5/V. Originally when it was introduced in March of 1954 it was called a Mark 5. In the beginning of 1980, the name on the tool itself shown on the Belt Cover Vent/Information Plate changed to Mark V although Mark 5 and Mark V were both being used in printed items through the 1970's.

I hope you have a better understanding of what the Mark 2 is and even the Mark 5/V.

[chapmanruss]

I didn't really mention my use of JB Weld in my last post. I have used JB Weld on restorations but not on the Way or Bench Tubes. The most common use I have had for it is filling in the "accidental" cut marks found on the Miter's Protractor. You can see a saw cut through the face of the Miter Protractor in the one on the left. It is caused by using the Miter on the left side of the blade when the table is tilted.

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Once filled and hardened the JB Weld can be smoothed and painted. Once done only the face of the Protractor still shows that the "accidental" cut ever existed. I have used it for other repairs too.

It would have to be a rather bad pitted area on a Way Tube for me to use something to fill it. I have not had that problem on any of the Way Tubes for the over 2 dozen Model 10E & 10ER, the 7 Mark 5/V's or the 2 Mark 2's I have owned. Below is one of the more rusted sets of way tubes I have delt with.

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Below is that same Model 10E restored. The Way Tubes came out looking and especially functioning very well considering how the looked before. Not perfect but very functional.

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Not the best view of it.

[crufone]

Russ,
You certainly have lots of knowledge and good historical & practical information. Thanks for sharing. I got the mark 2 for free and thought I could just swap out the ways to save me the time of clean-up / polishing the way tubes on my Mark V. From what you have done I believe that I can salvage my Mark V ways. I didn't realize at the time that the Mark 2 ways are 48" long and 1-3/4" in dia. The mark V ways are 52" long. Looks like Shopsmith came up with a "shorter"maching using 48" tubes to fit in smaller shops. Doesn't seem like 4" is such a big change to make any difference.

[crufone]

Russ,
BTW Thanks for posting all the great photos of your different machines. That really helps to visualize the parts mentioned.

[edma194]

Doesn't seem like 4" is such a big change to make any difference.

It does seem odd. The cost of the bench 'tubes' must have made some difference in the change to the wooden version. Possibly they could cut 48" tubes from a 20 foot or longer tube coming from the factory with less waste. And maybe Shopsmith had a stock of tubes that were a little too short or had damaged ends?

Speculation is too easy.