Shopsmith Forums

Ed in Tampa wrote:Dusty
Farmer brings up a good point. Are the cabinets going to the ceiling or is there going to be room above them? If there is room above them what do you plan to store up there. Remember what you store up there can quickly double the weight load of the cabinets.

I tend to over engineer/over build when I get done you can store an engine block in the cabinet and one on top.


However I would consider running a 19 foot board across the back wall for the cabinets to sit on and I would probably run another one under the front edge of the cabinets. Then I would tie the two together structurally along with the cabinets. If the cabinets are then properly fastened to the back wall, structually integral with the two boards spanning the length of the opening the cabinets should be able to support anything the back wall plus the compression of the two side walls would handle (read this to mean massive weight). I might even put in a center support for the board spanning the opening at the front of the cabinets.

In my case I would probably store lumber and perhaps little used parts and equipment above the cabinets.

Also like Farmer mentioned don't make the cabinets so high or what is below them so wide that you need to climb something to get into them. My cabinets can be reached by me standing on the ground. However top of cabinet storage needs a stool to get to.

Like Farmer I like peg boards also but then I have dust and spider web problems. So I moved to enclosed cabinets almost entirely.

Farmer and Ed have probably made good points here. I do have a lower cabinet running the width of the garage. These cabinets would span that same wall and I would have to reach over that bench to get to anything in the cabinets.

I currently have a shelf, down about 12" from the ceiling, spanning the width of that wall. These cabinets would replace that shelf but would store a lot more than I now put on the shelf.

I may be back to the "deep thought" process.

Thanks, all, for the inputs. Please keep them coming since I no longer think these things out too well on my own.

dusty wrote:I am preparing to build wall cabinets for in my shop.

I am seeking advise. All comments are welcome but what has really stopped me is dimensioning the face frame and determining the type of joint to use for the corners formed by the back and sides.

I have done a rudimentary sketch of the carcass showing "outside dimensions to help me communicate my thoughts.

I often do not go into this level of pre-planning. I sorta get basic size in mind and start cutting. Each piece being cut to fit with all others that have already been cut. This is known as "real time custom cabinet making" - where every piece is custom cut to fit where it is needed.

This is an attempt to approach it correctly.

[ATTACH]4552[/ATTACH]

Hi Dusty! Looked at this post before going to bed last night and couldn't get over my question - "Why is Dusty asking for help dimensioning the face frames when the cases are not yet built?" My answer to that question is - Dusty is overthinking and overengineering this project but missing some things.

First - you have a 2+ inch fall from the rear to the front of the cabinet. There will also be a 2 1/2" further drop 16" out in front of the cabinets (where the door could strike the ceiling). So you would think the face frame at the top should be about 3" wide in order to keep the cabinet door low enough.
However you could avoid this problem by hinging the cabinet doors at the top - so they have "lift doors".

Second - You will need a top on the cabinet frame - at least a board along the front where you can attach the face frame.

Third - To have cabinets that fit the sloping ceiling is cool, the way to accomplish this would be magnitudes easier if you were to build rectangular cabinets. After hanging, you can cover the open spaces easily.

Fourth - Let's talk about cabinet framing. First lets consider how you are going to hang the cabinets. Not only the method but how are they to be lifted into place. In order to screw the backs to the wall, you will need to first install a ledger board that is level and screwed to the wall so that it will hold the weight of a cabinet, while it is being screwed to a couple wall studs.

An easier method to attack cabinets is to use the interlocking wall ledger and another mating board that is part of the cabinet. With this method, all you need to do is lift the cabinet up to the ledger and it will fall into place - locked until again lifted.

To do this interlocking method - you need the back of the cabinet to be 3/4" in from the back of the sides. You can use 1/4" plywood for the back. the back would be inserted into a 1/4" groove in the plywood sides.

Referring back to the Second heading - You should put a full top on the case and it should be dadoed into the sides. This top will serve as a top for the interlocking ledger and will also serve as a place to anchor the face frame.

Of course, I think the bottom should be dadoed and screwed into the sides.

AFTER A CABINET IS MADE - YOU WILL BE PRESENTED WITH THE SIZE THE FACE FRAME NEEDS TO BE.

charlese wrote:Hi Dusty! Looked at this post before going to bed last night and couldn't get over my question - "Why is Dusty asking for help dimensioning the face frames when the cases are not yet built?" My answer to that question is - Dusty is overthinking and overengineering this project but missing some things.

First - you have a 2+ inch fall from the rear to the front of the cabinet. There will also be a 2 1/2" further drop 16" out in front of the cabinets (where the door could strike the ceiling). So you would think the face frame at the top should be about 3" wide in order to keep the cabinet door low enough.
However you could avoid this problem by hinging the cabinet doors at the top - so they have "lift doors".

Second - You will need a top on the cabinet frame - at least a board along the front where you can attach the face frame.

Third - To have cabinets that fit the sloping ceiling is cool, the way to accomplish this would be magnitudes easier if you were to build rectangular cabinets. After hanging, you can cover the open spaces easily.

Fourth - Let's talk about cabinet framing. First lets consider how you are going to hang the cabinets. Not only the method but how are they to be lifted into place. In order to screw the backs to the wall, you will need to first install a ledger board that is level and screwed to the wall so that it will hold the weight of a cabinet, while it is being screwed to a couple wall studs.

An easier method to attack cabinets is to use the interlocking wall ledger and another mating board that is part of the cabinet. With this method, all you need to do is lift the cabinet up to the ledger and it will fall into place - locked until again lifted.

To do this interlocking method - you need the back of the cabinet to be 3/4" in from the back of the sides. You can use 1/4" plywood for the back. the back would be inserted into a 1/4" groove in the plywood sides.

Referring back to the Second heading - You should put a full top on the case and it should be dadoed into the sides. This top will serve as a top for the interlocking ledger and will also serve as a place to anchor the face frame.

Of course, I think the bottom should be dadoed and screwed into the sides.

AFTER A CABINET IS MADE - YOU WILL BE PRESENTED WITH THE SIZE THE FACE FRAME NEEDS TO BE.

Charlese, I thank you. I don't know when I would have caught this foul up. It might have been when I lifted the first carcass up onto the ledger board and it would not fit because it is 2" too tall.

My ceiling slopes the other direction; not the direction that my recorded dimensions would indicate. I really should have caught this myself while trying to enter it into sketchup but then I am learning there too.

Your other comments are all interesting and I will give them serious consideration. I do need to do this right if I do it at all because I would load those cabinets with a lot of stuff that is currently "in my way" in the shop.

SWMBO says that I would be better off all the way around to just "clean house" first. Then, maybe I won't need additional cabinets at all. She really doesn't mean "clean house" she means "clean house and get rid of all that crap collected over the years". She just doesn't know how valuable that stuff could be if I ever find something to make with it.

Dusty,

I would simply use pocket hole joinery to build the cabinets . It is a lot easier. No glue or additional cuts such as rabbits needed. Just a thought.


Dave C.

dusty wrote: . . .

SWMBO says that I would be better off all the way around to just "clean house" first. Then, maybe I won't need additional cabinets at all. She really doesn't mean "clean house" she means "clean house and get rid of all that crap collected over the years". She just doesn't know how valuable that stuff could be if I ever find something to make with it.

It AIN 'T CRAP just like the stuff in the scrap box AIN't sCRAP!:D

I missed the door problem also.

I think 1/2" sides are adequate(they are adjacent to another 1/2" side) for the sides except the end ones. 3/4" would be better on the 'end sides'.

Key to this opinion is adequate support from the rear wall. a cleat running the entire width of the span no smaller than 3/4" x 4" and secured to all studs(at least 2 SCREWS of great length).

If using 1/4" plywood for a back, I do not understand what is supporting the 'ledger' on the cabinets. IMHO it is no better than nothing and might as well be omitted. This requires attaching the 'cabinet ledger' board to the back edge of the sides. Here the extra side thickness of the ends will be appreciated. I strongly recommend a beveled edge to the ledger(hanger) boards on both the upper edge of the wall ledger and the lower edge of the cabinet ledger. This allows 'hanging' the cabinet securely by simply lifting onto the ledger. This will prevent them from moving away from the wall until the cabinet ledger board is also screwed to the studs. I think a minimum of a 1 x 4 for the cabinet ledger board so as to provide adequate surface contact to the side back edge. This makes the dimension between the bottom ledger board(top) and the beveled ledger board(S) critical(top/outer edge of wall ledger and upper/inner edge of cabinet ledger). This bevel should NOT be full width of the edge. A flat edge on BOTH sides of the bevel is desired. This is where a pix is worth MANY MANY words. Will provide one if desired!

A corner block between the ledger board and the side allowing screws(and glue) on both the side edge and ledger board edge will help support.

Remember the SIDES are supporting ALL the weight.

If you do omit the back AND use ledger board attached to the back of the 'sides' remember to provide bottom and shelf? depth to go all the way to the wall(do NOT need a crevice back there!

Dusty
Like Farmer, If I can't see it I can't find it. I just put up shelves starting at 5 foot and spaced them 18 inches apart up to the ceiling. They don't look as nice as yours will, but I can see everything from across the room.

I inherited two hanging shop cabinets from a brother in law some thirty five years ago. I was forced to leave them in our last home. They were made from pine planking with plywood back and doors. The neatest feature was the brackets used to hang them. Two 2" width angle iron strips per cabinet. One mounted the full length below and the other above each cabinet. Three nut bolt combination fastened them and no way they would fall. Last December we drove by the old house and the garage door was open. Those cabinets were still there. I for one prefer solid doors as passersby and visitors can't see how messy I really am or what treasures I may or may not possess are out of sight. fjimp

The ledger board that several have mentioned for hanging these has me a bit confused.

Doesn't the use of a ledger board require that I lift the cabinets above the ledger, push tight against the supporting wall and drop down onto the wall ledger.

If it does, how can I do that with the cabinets up against the ceiling. There is something I don't understand.

dusty wrote:The ledger board that several have mentioned for hanging these has me a bit confused.

Doesn't the use of a ledger board require that I lift the cabinets above the ledger, push tight against the supporting wall and drop down onto the wall ledger.

If it does, how can I do that with the cabinets up against the ceiling. There is something I don't understand.

Dusty - You understand it. You need a small gap between the cabinet and ceiling to slip the ledger board above. See Wood Magazine Idea Shop 3. I think it's from 1997. The idea with this system is so you can move the cabinets around as your needs change.

dusty wrote:The ledger board that several have mentioned for hanging these has me a bit confused.

Doesn't the use of a ledger board require that I lift the cabinets above the ledger, push tight against the supporting wall and drop down onto the wall ledger.

If it does, how can I do that with the cabinets up against the ceiling. There is something I don't understand.

Yes BUT less than 1/2"!