Compatibility with Shopsmith

[8iowa]

There are a lot of industry groups that have produced many wonderful standards that we take for granted today. Often these standards are extensively used by people who have no clue as to the background.

For example, most fastners today have an SAE rating (Society of Automotive Engineers). When you buy 416 stainless steel the numbers describe in detail the content of the alloys in the matrix.

Other standards often seen in the products we buy established by an industry organization include ASTM (American Society of Testing Materials), ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers), NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association), and SPE (Society of Plastics Engineers). One that is probably not nearly as familiar to us (although it should be) is the WIMA (Woodworkring Industry Machinery Association. These groups have done a wonderful job to enhance the performance and safety of most products sold today.

That being said, even an old, established and well regarded industry group such as SAE is not about to tackle a standard that would enable a Chevrolet engine to fit in a Toyota. Perhaps the WIMA could tackle the standardization of miter slot size and "T" nuts but I suspect that this would be a tough task.

I don't think we can single out Shopsmith as the only "villan". There are probably numerous differences in other brand machines as well.

[charlese]

- Honestly, I'm not at all concerned over machining or metal standards. Really never have been. But it does make for interesting material to read, just before getting into bed. I did update my copy of "Pocket Ref" by Thomas J. Glover (3rd edition) and do use it for reference sometimes.

On the other hand, I have spent a lifetime, literally, trying to comprehensively understand all of the differences between log and lumber grading across regions of the U.S. At one time we tried to get standardized log grading, and standardized log scaling in Montana. That turned out to be a laugh!

I feel if we all (woodworkers) would learn to understand lumber grading standards (both hardwood and softwood) we as woodworkers would be better served as we buy this "commodity". My thinking is - Why do we worry so about the machinery we use when we don't even understand the material we machine? Who knows the difference between compression wood and tension wood and the effects of them on a given board? Who gives any appreciation to tylosis in different woods. Do we care about ring porous vs. diffuse porous hardwoods and how these accept stains? How about use of woods with incipient decay?(we call this "Stain"). Do we even know the difference between cellulose and lignin? How about the functions of sapwood vs. heartwood? Do we really appreciate what has caused burls and the unique grain within?
Do we care about the differences in wood movement when we select a board? Are we conscious about the arrangement/slope/closeness of the annual rings as we select the board? - and their effect on the movement of our wood? This could go On - and ON!

Of course we don't consciously think about these things as we select lumber for our next project. However, for each dollar in machinery we have invested we are likely to run at least an equal dollar of wood through that machine. Why don't we pay more attention to Wood?

On the other hand - We can simply enjoy the machines and the wood we have and appreciate them for their individual gratification as well as concrete abilities to serve and to please.

[alancooke]

-
On the other hand - We can simply enjoy the machines and the wood we have and appreciate them for their individual gratification as well as concrete abilities to serve and to please.

Right ON!

And,

I think greater compatibility among third party producers equates to more options, more toys, more reasons to look through catalogs, and more reasons to buy. Hence, more gratification. After all, we can't let our wives have more shoes than we have tools!:)

[Nick]

Gentlemen, the 23/32"-wide miter bar was decided upon in 1947 with the first 10E, long before the power tool industry had arrived at any standard. It's my guess that the odd dimension had more to do with someone getting a great deal on a car-load of non-standard 23/32" bar stock than any logical decision. Remember, this was right after WWII and some materials were still in short supply. Tool steel bar stock was probably one of them. After the first run of 10Es and 10ERs the original manufacturers, Magna Engineering, stuck with the odd size so their newer accessories would be backward-compatible with older machines, choosing to serve their growing pool of users. In 1976, the newly-formed Shopsmith, Inc. made the very same decision for the very same reasons.

When we introduced the 505, 510, and 520, we added 23/32" T-slots in the tables and fences that would be compatible with both the old and new miter gauges. At the same same, we engineered a 23-32" T-nut that would fit these slots. We figured that depending on the set-up, you might need to use the T-nuts in both the fence and the table, and we couldn't see making you buy two sizes of T-nuts. Same with the miter bar -- you can make an effective tenoning jig using the bar to ride along the top of the fence.

In each case, we endeavored to make these accessories as backward-compatible as possible so our community of users wouldn't have to scrap their machines and buy all new stuff to take advantage of evolving technologies. This decision also made it possible for users to upgrade older machines without have to buy new ones. That is the difference between Shopsmith and the other "villans" who manufacture IBM-platform PCs.

Those villians, by the way, make a free spell-checker.

With all good wishes,

[dusty]

Now that we have all vented, does anyone have an answer to my original question.

Does anyone manufacture and sell miter bars that are compatable to the Shopsmith (23/32") that are ALSO drilled and tapped to accomodate some of the other accessories like the Incra Miter 1000/2000/3000 or the Incra Miter V27.

As long as I am wishing, I might as well wish big. I just wish that companies like Incra, Jointech would allow someone/anyone to market miter bars that could be interchanged so that everyone's special purpose fixtures could be used on the Shopsmith.

I also would lke to see Shopsmith modify their miter bars so that the side play could be adjusted out. Incra has done a sweet job with their miter bar; adjustable to eliminate side play no matter how sloppy the standard miter track might be.

[paulmcohen]

I also would like to see Shopsmith modify their miter bars so that the side play could be adjusted out. Incra has done a sweet job with their miter bar]standard[/B] miter track might be.

Maybe I am missing something but I just tighten or loosen the allen screw to adjust side to side play.

[paulmcohen]

In each case, we endeavored to make these accessories as backward-compatible as possible so our community of users wouldn't have to scrap their machines and buy all new stuff to take advantage of evolving technologies. This decision also made it possible for users to upgrade older machines without have to buy new ones. That is the difference between Shopsmith and the other "villans" who manufacture IBM-platform PCs.

Those villians, by the way, make a free spell-checker.

With all good wishes,

As one of those other villains, who has been making CPU's for 25+ years that run every bit of IBM-platform software ever written yet still moving forward might I suggest Shopsmith sell a miter bar that has holes to accommodate other accessories. A joint program with Incra to offer a bar that fits all their mitre gages in addition to offering a complete solution is a win for everyone. As I have said before I have the same issue with Lathe Tool Rests, while I love my universal banjo, I would love to be able to use other tool universal tool rest bars. While every lathe has a unique hole diameter and depth, some manufactories have separated the bar into two pieces. The post and the bar, they sell a variety of posts one for each lathe (including a 3/4 inch for the old Shopsmith tool rest) and a large selection of bars that all fit into the same post.

Why do I want a different bar, well the Shopsmith ones are too short for some application (12" would be nice) , too soft for my chisels (I nick them), and you don't offer all the shapes I want (flat bar for reaching deeply into a bowl or large curves). You don't need to offer everything, just be "open" to others that want to.

[dusty]

paul

I can adjust the allen screw but I can't take all the lateral movement out without freezing the miter bar in the track.

One end of the bar is acceptably tight, while the outfeed end of the bar still moves (slightly but it moves).

Now since I don't build fine furniture, it is probably accurate enough but it could be dead on.
___________________
Making Sawdust Safely

[charlese]

Just like paulmcohen, I can tighten the little allen screw in the miter gauge to tighten the sides of the bar. I have even used that screw to lock the miter in both the saw and belt sander.

Dusty - You've probably tried very small adjustments. Mine works with just fine tuning (twisting).

Yes Nick,- Spell check should be used by all of us. The word I have trouble with most often is gauge as in miter gauge. I have ti use my SS catalog to get the correct spelling. Our spell check in the "posting window" wants to spell it "gauger" or "Gage". Those Villains! There they go again!

[paulmcohen]

Gauge gets me very time, also the button does not work on a Mac but I think Safari has one built in.