Compatibility with Shopsmith

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:25 pm

How does one go about making sure this really neat item, that you just read about or saw on TV or found while wondering around Woodcraft, is actually compatible to the Shopsmith.

Those of us who have bought something that won't work, like an Incra Miter Gauge with an odd size miter bar, have learned to be cautious.

Wouldn't it be nice if everything fit? It would be almost as neat if suppliers like Incra would be very upfront about incompatibilities.

I wish I could understand why relationships like Incra/Shopsmith don't provide a way to improve on compatibility. For example: Offer a miter bar that would make the Incra 1000SE compatible to Shopsmith.
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paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Fri May 04, 2007 9:51 pm

I have complained about this as well, even people who make things compatible with the Shopsmith usually will not admit it. Give 2,000,000 machines I would have thought that 3rd party accessory makers would be happy to serve this market. I can't imaging Delta has shipped 2,000,000 table saws with compatible interfaces but I have no problem finding Delta accessories.

In the computer world we call this a closed system (IBM Mainframe) vs an open system (the IBM PC) and we know who won that war.

Maybe Shopsmith needs to be more "open" to grow.

jcbrowne · Post by **jcbrowne** » Sat May 05, 2007 3:24 am

Compatibility and the possibility of using accessories and products manufactured by other third parties with Shopsmith machines would be a very great step forward not only to encourage more people to purchase a Shopsmith but to vastly expand the Shopsmith capabilities.

I only recently purchased a Mark V and I can say that in my cautious and slow introduction to its capabilities I have yet but encountered one frustration, which incidentally is great for me.

I found that the T-slot in the rip fence and tables (table saw and band saw) does not conform with most market standards. The T-slots are of a propriety size and are not compatible with other brands on the market.

This means that ALL my jigs which attached to miter slots on my other machines and all the T-nuts used throughout other accessories do not work with Shopsmith. For example, miter slots and T-nuts sold by Lee Valley for the manufacture of jigs are not compatible. Feather boards sold for other machines do not attach to the tables that are provided with the Mark V. And the list continues.

In some cases I find that either I redo a whole jig or have to modify it to work with my Mark V. Since I like complicating things, most jigs I have manufactured for specific jobs are designed to be compatible with more than one machine and even attach to other jigs for increased versatility. If I modify any of the jigs for the Mark V, either I have to modify a whole set or else loose this interchangeable capability I am accustomed to.

Just as an example, The feather board that comes with the Mark V works perfectly well but is slightly big for a tenon jig I made which also acts as a ripping fence extension. In this case I purchased standard feather boards and cut them to measure for a specific use (they are smaller but still work with 3/4" slots). I cannot cut the Shopsmith feather boards to fit because they are bigger and even if I tried, their bar does not fit the standard slot.

As expressed in this thread, wonderful accessories designed and developed for a broad market remain out of the scope of the Shopsmith user because of their incompatibility with the attachment system Shopsmith uses.

It sure protects a brand but it would be nice to be able to expand without the haunt of proprietorship when purchasing or trying to install jigs and accessories manufactured by reputable firms for the leading brands of woodworking equipment. I am only speaking here of the miter tracks and T-nut measurements.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:54 am

I understand the frustration brought by the incompatible miter slot. What I was hoping for was a flurry of solutions like:

1. A list of companies (found by experience) that sell fixtures that are compatible to the SS.

2. A list of companies (found by experience) that sell miter bars that can be interchanged with other fixtures to make them compatible.

Incra, for example, manufactures some very nice fixtures that are SS compatible. However, they sell a much longer list that is not. Can I simply purchase a special miter bar(s) from Incra and make all of the Incra fixtures, that are dependent upon a miter bar, compatible to SS.

Can this problem be resolved simply by drilling an tapping miter bars or is the incompatibility issue bigger than just a miter bar or t-slot?

james.miller · Post by **james.miller** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:46 pm

A few years ago I tried to buy a few things from Incra. At that time they would only sell the ones that were universal and not the ones specific to Shopsmith. Ringmaster has now done the same thing and you have to buy it from Shopsmith.

Would it be realistic to have the miter slots milled out to standard size, is the metal thick enough so it wouldn't weaken it. The table on the belt sander might be expensive because it is cast iron.

Just a thought.

Jim in Tucson

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm

dustywoodworker wrote:I understand the frustration brought by the incompatible miter slot. What I was hoping for was a flurry of solutions like:

1. A list of companies (found by experience) that sell fixtures that are compatible to the SS.

2. A list of companies (found by experience) that sell miter bars that can be interchanged with other fixtures to make them compatible.

Incra, for example, manufactures some very nice fixtures that are SS compatible. However, they sell a much longer list that is not. Can I simply purchase a special miter bar(s) from Incra and make all of the Incra fixtures, that are dependent upon a miter bar, compatible to SS.

Can this problem be resolved simply by drilling an tapping miter bars or is the incompatibility issue bigger than just a miter bar or t-slot?

I just bought some t nuts from Woodcraft and of course they are slightly too wide to go into the either the mitre or fence slots. I mounted them on a bolt chucked them in my drill chuck and using a file and sand paper turned them down to size. NO PROBLEM and 2 minutes work

While I never messed with a Incra mitre bar I would think it would be just that easy to sand it down to size. I think the difference we are talking about a 1/32" which is a few passes on the disk sander.

If you don't want to do that why not buy a few Shopsmith mitre bars and mount them to the Incra. Lastly they sell the slippery plastic that can easily be made to fit in the slot and make fantastic mitre bars.

While I see the difference in mitre bar slot width as an annoyance I don't see it as a show stopper.

As for tendoning jigs and such again a workable solution is to simply buy the Shopsmith mitre bar and install it on the OEM jig. Worst case you may have to drill a hole or two.

The only thing I can find that has compatibility problems is Zero clearance inserts and slidding tables. The Zero clearance table inserts is a problem with nearly every machine and most places carry numberous models to fit. Slidding tables can be a problem since the blade to slot distance can readily change with a SS. However a set block solves that problem also.

That all said I do think that about 10 years ago or so there were more manufactures offering SS accessories. The fact that most have dropped SS from their line tells me SS owners weren't buying their wares. Perhaps we SS owners need to get off our wallets a little more often.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:18 pm

Note to Ed in Tampa - Right On! Just a small annoyance.

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:03 pm

I, for one, would not want SS to alter their dimensions on new machines: That would mean that all future accesories would not fit the old machines. It would be a retooling nightmare for the company and all of us with old machines would now have a new set of compatibility problems.

paulmcohen · Post by **paulmcohen** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:49 am

I agree I don't want Shopsmith to change things to make older machines incompatible but I would like to see them put some effort into getting third parties that make compatible accessories at least say it. I got the Packard Woodworks tool rests (which I love) but I ended up going with the smaller (3/4") posts because they said "Fits Shopsmith", they offer a variety of 1" posts one of which will fit the Shopsmith Universal Tool Rest banjo but after weeks of research I never found out exactly which one to get.

The same is true for Inca I applaud that Shopsmith offers some Incra accessories but it should be easy to sell a miter bar that enables more of Incra's accessories to work.

Companies that make superior products (like Shopsmith) shouldn't worry that others participate in the ecosystem, in the long run everyone benefits.

jerryjankura · Post by **jerryjankura** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:14 am

It's not only a matter of miter bar width, but also the distance between the slots on the table and the blade that cause compatibility issues. Because of ShopSmith's table size, their miter slots are somewhat closer to the blade than the miter slots for most table saws.

Woodhaven once offered, and advertised, their miter gauges with bars tailored to fit the ShopSmith. I bought one on clearance; apparently enough of us did not purchase their gauge to make continued product manufacture worthwhile to them.

-- Jerry J.

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