Shopsmith Forums

This is my 'opinion' on this subject. The leveling bench and way tubes is relevant.

Bill V., Bill M., Dusty, JPG: Thanks for all your explanations and suggestions. To answer some of the questions:
- yes, the main table is square to the blade, using a 6" machinists square.
- I use a level to set and verify that the extension table is in the same plane as the main table, similar to one of the photos.

I will check the way tubes, and the location of their seams as suggested. Perhaps that's all that's wrong. I picked up a digital angle gauge today - it was on sale at Rockler.

I'll post an update once I've had a chance to check things further.

Thanks again for all the help.

Denver

Ok, I spent some time this weekend taking everything apart. The way tubes aren't dead straight, but they aren't far off either. Rolling on a flat surface there's never very much light showing underneath. I would say the gaps are never more than 1/64", if that. One has a barely detectable high side as it's rolled. The other seems pretty even all around.

Before I start putting it all back together though, any other things I should check?

Thanks,

Denver

denver wrote: I'm having a little trouble getting the main and extension tables aligned. ...
Any helpful ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
...

(Offered without comment) :

"Good morning, thank you for your inquiry. If you are referring to your
fixed extension table that has it's own mounting base, this table cannot be
moved from one end to the other without being re-aligned. You will want to
align it for either the left or right end of your Mark V and use it there
only. Again, it cannot be interchanged without needing to be re-aligned.
Your owner's manual should also state this information.

If you have further questions feel free to contact us again.

Thank you
________________"

denver wrote:Thanks Dusty. That's what Rob suggested also. I'll check that. I'm trying to visualize the effect that would have. It seems to me that if there was a twist, I would see a difference in the gap front to back. In an extreme case, one ...

Gaps, twists, level, crooked, whatever, it'll drive you crazy if you let it.
I let it. Mine was worse, but I was able to make it good enuf for most stuff. [thanks to JPG's alignments mostly]
But here's something to check: with your EXT on the left side (the Band Saw side) and a straight(ish) edge across it and the main so you can see the relationship, stand on the left in line with the long axis of the Mark V, wedge your foot against the near Mark foot (so you won't pull it across the floor), grab the "headstock" below the way tubes and pull. When I did this I could SEE the flex in the whole structure of the Mark V, as the straight edge showed.
As long as you have this you will not experience true comaptability bliss unless by sheer luck. Or if you decide to install a rigid "stretcher" across the Mark's feet (if it is like mine).

This goes perfectly hand in hand with what Dusty was describing in re his garage floor (also like mine). I'm tempted to lose the Mark feet and mount the rest on a solid wood base. But then I only use the Ext on the left for -- well, dang, now that I think of it-- nothing!

keakap wrote:Gaps, twists, level, crooked, whatever, it'll drive you crazy if you let it.
I let it. Mine was worse, but I was able to make it good enuf for most stuff. [thanks to JPG's alignments mostly]
But here's something to check: with your EXT on the left side (the Band Saw side) and a straight(ish) edge across it and the main so you can see the relationship, stand on the left in line with the long axis of the Mark V, wedge your foot against the near Mark foot (so you won't pull it across the floor), grab the "headstock" below the way tubes and pull. When I did this I could SEE the flex in the whole structure of the Mark V, as the straight edge showed.
As long as you have this you will not experience true comaptability bliss unless by sheer luck. Or if you decide to install a rigid "stretcher" across the Mark's feet (if it is like mine).

This goes perfectly hand in hand with what Dusty was describing in re his garage floor (also like mine). I'm tempted to lose the Mark feet and mount the rest on a solid wood base. But then I only use the Ext on the left for -- well, dang, now that I think of it-- nothing!

Keepap
You bring up an excellent point and one I contend is fact. there is a enough give, play, slop, flex, whatever anyone wants to call it in the Shopsmith to make perfect alignment impossible. Oh you can get it close maybe .001" close but a hand pressure here or a bump in the floor there and all of sudden the .001" turns in .005" or more out.

But you know what after it is all said and done wood working doesn't require perfect alignment. It requires craftsmanship and the more out of alignment something is the more craftsmanship is needed.

I do not believe that any of us need be told or convinced that the Mark V is NOT ROCK SOLID. That lack of absolute stability is a characteristic that we simply must live with.

However, I will take exception with anyone who contends that this flexibility either leads to or causes a degree of inaccuracy that renders the Shopsmith lame as a woodworking tool.

Once properly aligned, performance to within .005" or .1° is a snap.

If you are beginning an alignment on a machine whose general health is questionable, the alignments may take considerable time. Once properly aligned, performance verification is a matter of minutes.

Ed in Tampa wrote:.)...craftsmanship and the more out of alignment something is the more craftsmanship is needed.

Okay. Here goes. I'm getting it out of the way early.
My whackjob commentary "of du jour" (sorta like sayin "with au jus"):

..."the more out of alignment something is..."

T'other day I was grooving some boards for drawer guides, and rather than get out and set up the Dado Set, decided to use the configuration in place-- SS carbide Combo blade, Stop Collars on Main and Ext, Incra jig mounted. In a few minutes (of fun, btw) I had 6ea. centered, 25/32" wide, flat bottomed, 1/2" (+/- undetectable) deep grooves in the 22" pieces.

And ya know what, Ed? It was too easy!

dusty wrote:I do not believe that any of us need be told or convinced that the Mark V is NOT ROCK SOLID. That lack of absolute stability is a characteristic that we simply must live with.

However, I will take exception with anyone who contends that this flexibility either leads to or causes a degree of inaccuracy that renders the Shopsmith lame as a woodworking tool.

Once properly aligned, performance to within .005" or .1° is a snap.

If you are beginning an alignment on a machine whose general health is questionable, the alignments may take considerable time. Once properly aligned, performance verification is a matter of minutes.

Given no design or equipment flaws I agree holeheartedly. The package is quite capable of producing with remarkable agility and accuracy, from simple to sublime. Once I got rid of my design and equipment flaws what remains is excellent, with any glitches inconsequential (there's gotta be SOMEthin left to whine about!).
Once one knows of the stuff to look out for it becomes almost automatic to deal with 'em. I'm thinking I have never had a power tool that did not have some idiosyncrasies.

dusty wrote:I do not believe that any of us need be told or convinced that the Mark V is NOT ROCK SOLID. That lack of absolute stability is a characteristic that we simply must live with.

However, I will take exception with anyone who contends that this flexibility either leads to or causes a degree of inaccuracy that renders the Shopsmith lame as a woodworking tool.

Once properly aligned, performance to within .005" or .1° is a snap.

If you are beginning an alignment on a machine whose general health is questionable, the alignments may take considerable time. Once properly aligned, performance verification is a matter of minutes.

Dusty
I certainly wasn't suggestting that SS are lame woodworking machines. I have done plenty of projects on the SS and each one has flaws most are caused by me but some are the result of faults in the SS. In each case these faults needed craftsmenship to hide them, perhaps it is more devious mind rather than craftsman ship But let us be honest if you align your SS to .005" and that much slop is to much for you, you need to be a craftsman to be able to hide them. That was what I was trying to say and apparently failed miserbly doing so.