My light duty MT2 shopsmith chuck

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:25 pm

Hi Dusty,

There are certain times when we are limited by the way the shopsmith was designed. A prime example is that most lathes have a power head that has either a collet system or a MT(#). So most things that mount want to use this system. Thus far only a few places are offering a 5/8" shaft option.

To be a true adapter it would more then likely have to be made out of metal in a metal shop, something most of us don't have the option of doing.

I decided to make a wooden one out of plywood which is both strong and light weight and can be worked in a wood shop. Using a MT2 part I had I determined how deep the chuck needed to be so it would fit together. That came out to be the size I used for the length. The diameter was based on the shopsmith faceplate, since I wanted to turn it and not have to deal with working to near the face plate I made it just about 4", far enough away from the faceplate to be safe.

BTW the plywood weighs in at 13 oz, haven't check with the other parts added on but it is light, most metal chucks are pounds...

Ed

dusty wrote:OKAY, maybe I am ignorant but I do not understand this exercise.

I see that you have used a faceplate and therefore can mount on the Mark V. I also see that you have mounted a MT fitting in the "flywheel".

This facilitates the conversion but is that the only reason for the plywood flywheel (somewhere to house the MT)?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:08 pm

Run a 5/8" shaft through the faceplate and the first two(and maybe into the adapter to align them prior to tightening screws.

May help, maybe wishful 'thinking'.

greitz · Post by **greitz** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:36 pm

Ed- maybe a double-ended MT2 alignment tool (available from Packard Woodworks) would help. With one end in the tailstock, the other end would position your MT2 part aligned exactly with the tailstock, then you'd have to figure out how to permanently fix the MT2 part into your plywood stack.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchan ... gory_Code=

Sorry, I know it's expensive....

Gary

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:22 pm

Fodder fer de cranium Ed.

One new part for alignment only.
[ATTACH]15561[/ATTACH]

The 10ER is reversed, there is nearly 3/4" from the faceplate
[ATTACH]15562[/ATTACH]

Not easy to see from this angle, but there is slightly less that 2 1/4" to the end of the arbor(typical length).
[ATTACH]15563[/ATTACH]

So I think 3x3/4 spacers is enough.

If the outer (larger end) of the 10ER adapter is counter bored(1 1/2") into the outer spacer(3/16" depth), the 'typical' MT2 arbor will NOT extend more than 2 1/4" behind it(3x3/4").

The outer two spacers need a 7/8" through hole in the center. The 10ER adapter can be merely tightened into the pair(good wrench access on inner end).

The inner most spacer needs a 3/4" through hole with a 1 1/2" (5/8" depth) counter bore. The 3/4" side allows alignment to the arbor adapter as the adapter is centered in the faceplate bore. The 1 1/2" counter bore faces out from the faceplate both for alignment, and final position.

To align, slip the arbor adapter into the faceplate with the tapered end extending out from the face of the faceplate. Insert it all the way in until the 3/4" shoulder butts against the faceplate. Snug the set screw onto the arbor adapter shaft centering the set screw on the flat as usual.

Next slip the outer two spacers with the 10ER adapter reversed so it will slip onto the arbor adapter taper and bottom out(centered). The arbor adapter can be moved in/out in the faceplate hole to allow the spacers to just touch as the tapers bottom out.

Now comes the crucial/tricky part! The face plate has two sets of 3 holes. Each set has two holes that are equidistant from the center and 120° apart. The third I refer to as the bastard hole since it is not equidistant from the other two. This is intentional so that a workpiece can be dismounted and remounted to the same holes.

With all parts securely mated, drill two holes through the 'non-bastard' holes and through all three spacers paying mind to drilling them absolutely as close to vertical as you can. Any deviation will show up as runout later. After drilling the first hole, insert a 1/4" dowel(metal preferred) through the three spacers and the faceplate. Then drill the second.

My faceplate(the one in the pix) has purty accurate 1/4" diameter holes. So a 1/4" bit is indicated. Assuming no workpiece movement can occur, I think a forstner bit will work best, but if somewhat prone to movement, a brad point might be better. NO movement is preferred!!!

After ACCURATELY boring those two through holes, take the outer two spacers off, remove the adapter from the faceplate, flip the outer two spacers so the larger end of the 10ER adapter faces out and pin both through holes with 1/4" dowel(metal preferred). The dowels must pass through all three spacers and the faceplate. Make sure the holes originally pined are mated.

Now drill the 'bastard' hole through all three spacers. Insert a 1/4" screw(with long 1/4" unthreaded shank preferred[cap screws]) and snug it firmly(nut and washers).

Remove the two dowels one at a time and replace with similar screws.

After determining runout is 'ok' really tighten the screws(nuts).

Now if you want, smooth out the outer diameter. I think sanding would be prudent!;)

Sorry to have gone into detail that you already know Ed, but some others will probably need that to unnerstan!

P.S. lesson learned! My pix were dumped after too long being uploaded and inserted into a post being created but not actually posted(yet). At least that is my conclusion!

reible · Post by **reible** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:27 am

Hi,

I spotted this post when I was on earlier today but it was without the attachments. I have not had the time to study what you have said but I will soon. Thanks for the effort.

I just wanted to mention I did do just a little more on the project yesterday. First I did a runout test on the shopsmith, .0025. I also checked the hole size that should be .875, the Forstner bit is cutting more like .880 but it is hard to measure wood so that error could just be that. I really don't feel any movement nor do I see any misalignment between the two stacked pieces. I'll take a look at the bit and see if I see any problems with that, even check its run out.

Next I want to see how flat the face plate is. It does have a ridge that I can feel with my fingers so I want to get that off.

I also will need to do a fresh alignment to make sure the tail stock and headstock points align perfectly. They looked good but I need to get a better light and my magnification hood to really see, my eye sight could have been off a few thousandths.

I have in my mind that a run out of about .010 should be possible. At least that is my plan.

Ed

reible · Post by **reible** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:54 pm

Weather person says we might hit the high 40's tomorrow. If so and it is not too windy I might get to this project again then.

Top on the addenda is to check the faceplate to see how flat and "square" it is to the shaft, after getting some readings it will be either OK or need some work getting it square.

While I was out today I picked up a 3' section of 1/4" rod. I went with a plated stock as it is closer to .250 then CR and still cheaper then drill rod.

As I did in my first attempt, and will again this time, using the faceplate as a drill guide for the 3 holes that I drilled. The raw blocks are "stuck" together with double sided tape and are in effect a single piece. In case the table is not at 90 degrees to the drill I orientate to hole towards the tubes and the disks facing me. This is an old trick I learned and it has served me well, if the hole is off a little then each hole will be off by the same amount and all in the same direction relative to the direction it was drilled, either all flaring in or out, but the same.

This time I will insert the 1/4" rod after each hole, the rod and hole should be lined up very close to perfect despite what the blank stock looks like. After the three holes are drilled I will take the faceplate off and rotate and again using it as a drill guide I will drill the three holes that I will bolt it together with. This should serve to separate functions of the clamping from the alignment. BTW the shaft of the fasteners I was using is .246 and they are fully threaded. I will look for some fasteners that have only threads on the very bottom portion this more shaft to fit snugly in the holes. Another trip to the hardware.

I'm happy with the stack up, the 4 layers comes in at about right when measuring against the longest tang I have, I have maybe .200" of headroom on the wood and another .100 on the faceplate. I will be adjusting the depth of a few of the counterbores which might even improve the spacing.

I will pull the bolts, and take the stack apart to take the tape off. I hope the added shafts let it all go back together correctly.

Now will be the time to trim the blanks to sort of round on the bandsaw, still all held together with the bolts and steel rods, the whole thing is cut.

With the faceplate bolted on we go to the lathe. I want to recheck the point to point alignment with better light and some magnification. If everything looks good I will mount the new chuck and center. I want to turn it first to get it round and to get rid of any vibrations that being out of round could cause. Last time this went really well and I so no reason to change the procedure.

At this point I will have to set up for the drilling. My preference is to go with the 1-1/2 hole first followed by the 7/8" hole. This part also went well last time.

With that drilling done the stack must be taken apart to do the second side clearances, since they are not critical and have nothing to do with alignment I don't expect any issues here either.

Now comes the truth, assembling and seeing how the smooth the cylinder is will give me some idea but once it is remounted comes the run out test.

So how close this time?

You will have to wait and see just like me.

Ed

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:55 pm

Since the 1 1/2" hole is a clearance hole and the centering of the 7/8" is done later, the sequence does not matter, but I would drill them from opposite ends.

I do think the alignment of the 10ER adapter to the faceplate bore is critical and that is why I suggested using the M5 tailstock adapter for alignment. That has the 'issues' of having to be reversed and the drilling accuracy greatly increased.

Maybe we need to consider altering the sequence and method of 'fabrication'.

1) Cut and drill spacer closest to faceplate and middle one as well. Do not drill the face spacer.(yet). I see the inner two spacers as clearance holes.

2) Drill and align the three spacers as you described(both pinned and screwed).

3)Mount and turn the 10ER adapter mounting hole and counter bore. You could drill it first an size by turning.

4) Trim the outside.

As a thought, put the 'non-bastard' holes diametrically opposed and I think the bastard ones will be also. Dynamic balance!

I still think two 3/4" spacers is preferable to three - reduces the projection out from the quill. <<<<<Correction! Add one more spacer!!!

If I ever get into pen turning, I will be making one myself. That is my incentive for all this brain rattling. Besides do I like 'challenges'!;)

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:48 pm

Breaking news.

I just finished checking the face plate, dial indicates it is off by .012". So I'm not building on level ground.

Here is a picture of the results of two light passes, you can see the area where it has had material removed and the areas where it has not, well I hope you can see it anyway.

[ATTACH]15623[/ATTACH]

Should have more reports later in the day.

Ed

reible · Post by **reible** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:10 pm

Hi,

The face plate is now about as flat and square as I care to get it. Last measurements were under .002, so now I have a base to build on.

By the time I got everything cleaned up and a couple of other chores done it was getting to cold with the garage door open. Had to bundle up a bit anyway cause of the wind and it being down to 44 degrees after a high of 49.

Not sure I will do anything tonight on that project.

The first picture I tool it was hard to see the area where I had removed material and where it was raw casting. The next couple of photos I think show it better, well I hope so anyway.

[ATTACH]15629[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]15630[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]15631[/ATTACH]

This last photo show the tang after going through 3 disks, and well into the 4th, ie why I'm using 4 disks.

[ATTACH]15632[/ATTACH]

Ed

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:24 pm

reible wrote:Hi,

The face plate is now about as flat and square as I care to get it. Last measurements were under .002, so now I have a base to build on.

By the time I got everything cleaned up and a couple of other chores done it was getting to cold with the garage door open. Had to bundle up a bit anyway cause of the wind and it being down to 44 degrees after a high of 49.

Not sure I will do anything tonight on that project.

The first picture I tool it was hard to see the area where I had removed material and where it was raw casting. The next couple of photos I think show it better, well I hope so anyway.

[ATTACH]15629[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]15630[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]15631[/ATTACH]

This last photo show the tang after going through 3 disks, and well into the 4th, ie why I'm using 4 disks.

[ATTACH]15632[/ATTACH]

Ed

So now we not using a 10ER socket?:rolleyes:

Curious how you dressed the face place.