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jtrainer wrote:I appreciate your patience I'm still very green in ShopSmith land. I'm fulfilling child hood dreams



OK Sure I wasn't very clear. By hand turning the Quill Assembly using the drill chuck. I thought and could be wrong, but if the oil is helping then with the porkchop moved just off the Center Pin/Hole assy mimicking the speed increase when spun by hand the upper sheaves would start to separate and allow me to get to the full speed position.




OK It's not bad but getting that perfect right angle is going to be hard to get, but I'll give it a whirl.



OK Herein lies part of my problem, I seem to be stuck in Low/Slow speed and am unable to get to high speed. Thus if the belt can't be taken off in this position, I'm I to think the only alternative is to cut said belt?

So once that belt for the motor pulley is off, the control and idler sheaves should be able to separate by hand, regardless of the poly-v/glimmer belt still being in place?

Panic unwarrented.

Stuck in low speed. What does that mean? I believe in your case, the floating sheave on the motor shaft is stuck in low speed position.

If the earlier pix are indicative of the control sheave 'free' to move, but the belt is not forcing the control sheave to the left in the pix. Or maybe the belt is stuck between the control sheave and the idler sheave. If it drops down too low it can become wedged.

I am assuming a few things here, but I suggest the following sequence of actions. If anything does not go as planned, stop and we will reconsider what is next.

Manually pull the control sheave as close to the left(towards the porkchop(also moved as far to the left as it will go)(ignore dial 'indication' for the present) as it will go. Carefully try to move the belt out away from the center of the pulley(away from the shaft).

Now go look at the motor shaft pulley. Where is the belt riding. If it is down towards the center, the belt may be loose(only if the floating sheave is stuck). If it is not stuck. the floating sheave should be trying to move towards the fan sheave and rotating the pulley will allow the belt to move out towards the outer edge of the pulley. Keep in mind the belt must also move on the idler pulley when rotated.

B ear in mind, the belt can also get caught in the motor pulley the same way as the idler pulley. This usually will only occur with a badly worn(narrow) belt.

Once the belt is riding close to the outer edge of the motor pulley, the floating sheave can be manually(watch out for pinched pinkies) opened(pulling towards the outer end of the motor shaft) and the belt dropping on one side into the pulley will provide slack on the other side.


So look for the belt being squeezed(caught) by either pulley(gotta correct that first) then determine if anything else is 'abnormal'.

You should be able to manually move either 'floating' sheave as long as nothing is 'interfering'. You have to overcome the spring tension on the motor pulley.

I realize this is a lot to absorb, but start the journey!:)

P.S. the Poly-v/Gilmer belt is not a factor here. It does not affect speed control or viceversa.

OK the control sheave does not seem to slide no matter how much grip/strength I provide. Perhaps it did move a tiny bit only since the belt seems to have gone down maybe 1/8" maybe 1/16". But that seems like it's a start.

As for the belt, it does not seem to be wedged between the sheaves. It is loose I can now squeeze together and off and lowered back down the belt on operator side (side with speed control) the belt is against the way tube sort of relaxed with plenty of looseness in it. Before I recall it was rather tensioned.

Perhaps it really is the lower sheaves... None the less I'm still trying to get it to fast mode so I can get the belt off. Since this is the belt that came on it 7 years ago (little use thus far by me) perhaps I should just mark it for replacement.

I snapped more photos, once I sit down tonight I'll go and see how clear they are and see if they might give you any other ideas as to the issue at hand.

jtrainer wrote:OK the control sheave does not seem to slide no matter how much grip/strength I provide. Perhaps it did move a tiny bit only since the belt seems to have gone down maybe 1/8" maybe 1/16". But that seems like it's a start.

As for the belt, it does not seem to be wedged between the sheaves. It is loose I can now squeeze together and off and lowered back down the belt on operator side (side with speed control) the belt is against the way tube sort of relaxed with plenty of looseness in it. Before I recall it was rather tensioned.

Perhaps it really is the lower sheaves... None the less I'm still trying to get it to fast mode so I can get the belt off. Since this is the belt that came on it 7 years ago (little use thus far by me) perhaps I should just mark it for replacement.

I snapped more photos, once I sit down tonight I'll go and see how clear they are and see if they might give you any other ideas as to the issue at hand.

If the belt is 'loose' and the motor pulley is not forcing the belt towards the outer edge, the floating sheave is probably stuck(see next paragraph).

Do realize the the reason for setting it all to fast is merely to get the belt positioned close to the outside of the Motor pulley. There is no other purpose for a particular 'speed setting' other than that and getting the control sheave open to provide less tension. The floating sheave must be rotating to move. If you have not tried rotating the quill shaft manually, do so now and observe if the motor belt is moving(not stuck someplace) and if the sheaves do move as a result of that rotation. Attaching a sanding disc or faceplate makes manual rotation easier.

Correct to get the belt off I'm to get to high speed positioning to make this easier.

The Quill Assy spins and the belts move all shafts freely with little to no binding.

The rotation of the quill assy by hand is not bringing the floating sheave inward to force the belt to force the control sheave to open. If it is this could be my 1/16 inch movement of the belt separating the control and idler sheaves.


thanks again for your help

The need is to get the belt positioned on the motor pulley close to the outer edge of the pulley.

Normally this is accomplished by setting the speed control dial to fast which should open up the control/idler sheaves spacing.

If the control sheave is still away from the porkchop as shown in your first pix, then the control sheave must be stuck on the idler shaft.

At this point it MAY help to remove the speed control so as to get more room to push/pull the control sheave. That will also allow removal of the control sheave(IIRC). A convoluted path out the belt cover end.

It MAY also help to raise to vertical(headstock max to the right) to allow possibly seeing the center of the idler pulley and maybe getting some penetrating fluid onto that area of the idler shaft. If the sheave is too closed, that may not be possible. If you can get some penetrating fluid into that area leaving it vertical MAY allow it to seep into the bore/shaft.


Over.

I had to remove the spring from the lower sheeve and get the belt off. Then I could take the upper stuff apart. If the sheeve is stuck you need to soak it for a considerable length of time before trying to free it up. Bill Mayo warns agains prying to avoid damage. His advice worked for me.

Tip of the day........take a bit of emery paper and run around the inside of the inspection hole and clean the sharp edges off. Saves your hands. I learned the hard way!

Bob

I had to remove the spring from the lower sheeve and get the belt off. Then I could take the upper stuff apart. If the sheeve is stuck you need to soak it for a considerable length of time before trying to free it up. Bill Mayo warns agains prying to avoid damage. His advice worked for me.

Tip of the day........take a bit of emery paper and run around the inside of the inspection hole and clean the sharp edges off. Saves your hands. I learned the hard way!

Bob

jtrainer wrote:Correct to get the belt off I'm to get to high speed positioning to make this easier.

The Quill Assy spins and the belts move all shafts freely with little to no binding.

The rotation of the quill assy by hand is not bringing the floating sheave inward to force the belt to force the control sheave to open. If it is this could be my 1/16 inch movement of the belt separating the control and idler sheaves.


thanks again for your help

Maybe this thread will help; especially some of the photo images. The thread is about nothing directly related to your problem but it contains some information that may be helpful - I hope.

You can believe me when I say spring removal with the motor still attached to the headstock is for me a last resort! I prefer the motor/pan separated from the headstock.

I have been trying to sneak up on this so as to be sure what is mis-behaving.

I may be acting naive in hoping there is a simpler 'fix' than 'really' taking it apart.

I am not sure jtrainer is comfortable digging in that deep up front(we may need to do so anyway).

At this point the control sheave is not acting normal.

It may very well be that the floating sheave is not either, but that has not yet been determined.

Yes removing the spring/floating sheave will get the belt off the motor, but we have other unsolved issues.


i.e. We still be fact finding!;)

mgbbob wrote:I had to remove the spring from the lower sheeve and get the belt off. Then I could take the upper stuff apart. If the sheeve is stuck you need to soak it for a considerable length of time before trying to free it up. Bill Mayo warns agains prying to avoid damage. His advice worked for me.

Tip of the day........take a bit of emery paper and run around the inside of the inspection hole and clean the sharp edges off. Saves your hands. I learned the hard way!

Bob

Tip #2 . . . . . Do not stick yer hand into the 'inspection' hole!:D