Shopsmith Forums

Here is a really good page by a group of doctors pushing for universal health insurance:

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer- ... ngle-payer

joshh wrote:Healthcare became a right when ER's were no longer allowed to refuse care.

My ERs don't provide health care.

But, (IMHO) they work better than your Mark 5 does.

Sorry, had to add some levity to this, and you left the door open.

steve

skou wrote:My ERs don't provide health care.

But, (IMHO) they work better than your Mark 5 does.

Sorry, had to add some levity to this, and you left the door open.

steve

Hey! My mark V has only been at the "final coat of paint stage" for 8 months

I have one that is ugly as hell but works fine, and one pretty as hell...in pieces.

joshh wrote:This whole thing is a little silly. We already spend over double in tax-money what universal healthcare would cost us. Both sides should be pushing for single payer. Conservatives should back it for the 50% or more cost reduction and better care. Liberals should back it since most believe healthcare is a right.


Every single other developed country provides healthcare through the tax system for every citizen and pays much less per person with much better outcomes. The wait time "issue" is a myth. If it was true, America would not be near last in almost every healthcare metric. We have the best traumacare in the world (maybe not even best...more like "thorough"). We are below 3rd world country status in infant mortality because we refuse to provide prenatal care for every woman. We love to talk about abortion but what about babies dying because their mom was poor?! Over 50,000 people die every year from no healthcare because we cling to a more-expensive and immoral system.


The single biggest cost in healthcare is from lack of access. People use the ER as a primary care doctor or they wait until their condition is so bad (because they don't have access) that the cost goes from a few hundred dollars to a few hundred thousand...


Instead of several thousand pages of a new law they should have written one sentence. "Every CITIZEN in the US is covered under Medicare and medicare now covers 100% of all healthcare costs, without exception." Done...solved...over...and everyone's taxes would go down from cost savings. You can bet your last dollar that if every citizen (including politicians) had Medicare, any and all issues would be fixed very quickly. As it is now, it only effects old people and doctors so most don't care...

Yeah I watched Politically Incorrect this week too...but I still don't agree. Before proclaiming that spending half as much on universal care as we do today is a good solution, ask yourself how and why that much public money is being spent on personal health care to begin with. How do I as an able bodied working adult get my hands on some of that scratch? Who is on the receiving end of this, and how can we close that? The problem solving (and defining) skills of every person involved with this issue would get them fired from most managerial jobs.

It's the same as a water main busting in the factory so I stick bubble gum on it to slow down the flow. Or turn the water main off. Sure, it improved or fixed the flooding but it did not solve the problem.

dusty wrote:I'm sorry but I just can not help but wonder why you have not transported yourself to NZ to live the high life along with your daughter and her family.

Nice comeback. I'm sure glad we're all friends here or some viewers might think we're getting kinda personal. I assume since you started this thread you were inviting discussion on this subject.

fredsheldon wrote: Nice comeback. I'm sure glad we're all friends here or some viewers might think we're getting kinda personal. I assume since you started this thread you were inviting discussion on this subject.

That was not a come back! It was an honest question and discussion is always welcome.

We have a problem is this country there are some people that each day must decide to eat or take their meds. That is wrong!

Today you can buy a 90 day supply of pills from the Canadian drug store for less than you can buy a 30 day supply from an American Pharmacy. $279 to $327. That is wrong!

You can buy a tube of Ibuprofen gel (which really works) over the counter in Britain for less than $10 but the similar product here is by prescription only and costs over $300 for the same quantity.
That is wrong!

My Canadian neighbor had throat cancer and had excellent health insurance but he had to leave this country and go back to Canada to live so his treatment and medications did not bankrupt his family. That is wrong!

Doctors are being besieged by companies that are teaching them how to maximize their profits at the expense of the patients. That is wrong?

Dedicated Doctors and Nurses are getting out of the field frustrated by Government bureaucracy and reducing income. That is wrong!

Kids coming out of Medical School are carrying such high loan debts that they will never be completely free of for many years. That is wrong!

We keep giving people more and more access to medical care but we aren't doing an adequate job in increasing the number of care providers.
That is wrong.

Hospitals many which are considered non profit look for ways to spend money to keep their non profit status instead of offering more free care to people that can't pay. I have seen the waste. That is wrong!

Contractors knowing the hospitals have tons of money charge super high prices to do any work in the hospital. Almost a rich get richer and the poor get poorer type of thing. That is wrong!

At the rate we are going affordable health care will be a oxymoron in the very near future. The prices will so high only the very rich will be able to afford it. That is wrong!

Ed in Tampa wrote:You can buy a tube of Ibuprofen gel (which really works) over the counter in Britain for less than $10 but the similar product here is by prescription only and costs over $300 for the same quantity.
That is wrong!

Oooo that sounds like something I'd like to try. How is it used, for arthritis?

What makes even less sense, 800 mg tablets of Ibuprofen are prescription only. So I take two 400 mg tablets.

frank81 wrote:Oooo that sounds like something I'd like to try. How is it used, for arthritis?

What makes even less sense, 800 mg tablets of Ibuprofen are prescription only. So I take two 400 mg tablets.

I think it is for most anything. My wife had plantar fasciitis in her foot and I think tendinitis in her one hand and putting this gel on allowed her to work pain free. There is now a similar gel called Voltaren Gel that seems to work also. The last time we bought it, the price of it stressed my heart. Doctor said he wanted to give me a stress test and he knew the price would do it. Funny man my Doc.

But in Britain you can buy this stuff over the counter for a few bucks.

Healthcare is not a right. Saying ERs can't refuse treament doesn't make it a right. It's still a service. It's something we want everybody to have, at high quality and low cost. We want everybody to have warm clothes in the winter, but that doesn't mean we have a right to a free coat from Burlington Coat Factory. We want people to have food, but that doesn't mean everyone has a right to a free Big Mac every day. We want everybody to have a home, but that doesn't mean we have a right to go to a local contractor and have him build us a house for free. These things aren't rights. They're goods and services, even if the government says they can't refuse you service.

A right does not infringe on someone else's rights. I don't have a right to your time and property. You don't have a right to mine. Healthcare is not a right because it requires other people's time and property.

The reason I oppose socialized healthcare is because it is an infringement upon my rights. It requires my time and money to pay for someone else's healthcare. Private insurance also requires that, but I have a choice to join that system or not. I'm not being compelled to "contribute" against my will. It's voluntary, which is how it should be. There are indeed drawbacks to that, but as my personal hero Thomas Jefferson said, I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.