Shopsmith Forums

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dusty wrote:I would like to suggest that the back drop for the Sawdust Sessions should be changed to emphasize this point. The Shopsmith as the foundation around which to build a 380-400 square foot workshop that can support the woodworking habits of most all of those that do our work in this niche.

Since the sessions up to the last one were by subscription only, it would be interesting to know how many that enrolled to participate were ShopSmith owners. Unless the sessions brought in non-owners, the Sawdust sessions have been mearly "preaching to the choir". It is one thing for the sessions to sell SPT's to current owners, and a vastly different thing to bring in new owners.

Now that the sessions offer open enrollment, I don't see how ShopSmith will know, except by a sale, if many non-owners are watching and are being convinced that the investment in a system is worth it.

Dusty, you make a good point, but there has to be a non-owner watching for it to be effective.

Dick

dickg1 wrote:
Dusty, you make a good point, but there has to be a non-owner watching for it to be effective.

Dick

Dick'

It is the non-owner that I am attempting to appeal to. The owner already knows whether or not his Shopsmith is doing the trick

It is the guy like me that wanted a wood shop from the day I got out of high school but up until that time the only wood shop I knew was either the one at the high school or the one that belonged to the cabinet/furniture maker that taught me for one summer.

I knew I couldn't have a shop like either of those and that was par. Then I saw my first Shopsmith demo. Hey, I can have one of those! All I have to do is start saving and I did.

With the Sawdust Session being presented in an environment that is typical of a two car garage (spacewise), Shopsmith would be "selling" what makes the Shopsmith most valuable to most of us.

I also believe that they should actively market the fact that it is "easily" portable. I bought mine when I was active duty military. I relocated every two to three years. This made it absolutely impossible to have the "cast iron monster" with all of its support gear. The Shopsmith, on the other hand, was moved without incident five times and did not cause me to go over weight..

Talking about single-purpose tools and those who sell and buy them. Here are some questions to consider.

As an example: Why will someone new to woodworking purchase a Delta table saw compared to say a Powermatic table saw? Is it because the salesman did a better job pitching one brand over another? Does one have better features than the other?

Another question is: Why did "you" buy a Shopsmith instead of single-purpose tools? Was it because the demonstrator was a good salesman? Were you looking for a smaller set-up to begin with and had already considered buying a Shopsmith?

I think a big part of this is marketing. Is the company doing what it should to expose their products to the proper demogaphics? I think that Shopsmith has lost its way and needs to look back at what used to work for them in creating new sales. Yes, it's great that they offer the accessories, but sooner or later everyone who is going to purchase those will, and then what? New sales to a new customer base is what keeps a company like Shopsmith afloat.

Maybe it is time for Shopsmith to update and offer a more modern system. Electronic controls, better safety off switches, different size HP motors, spiral cutterheads in the jointer and planer, removable tailstock with an adjustable morse taper like a standard lathe has, electronic variable speed with electronic readout. The list can go on and on.

Why the updates? Because that is what the single-purpose tool makers are offering. They are continuely updating their products and that is what makes the sales. I hate to say it, but when someone says, and actually brags about, how Shopsmith hasn't changed their basic model for more than fifty years, it makes me kringe.

Here's an example of that: How many of you would prefer to buy a new computer that hasn't changed or been updated for 30 years, or will you rather buy one that has all the latest technology built into it?

If Shopsmith came out with a new model that features the items I mentioned earlier, I will probably buy it. Even now after only owning my current one for that last 6 1/2 yrs.

Now, if you are someone just getting started and looking for woodworking tools, what will you want? A system that has barely been upgraded for the past 50 yrs., or some tools with all the latest features built in. I know what that person will choose.

Comments? Opinions? Let's hear them.

I would like to suggest that the back drop for the Sawdust Sessions should be changed to emphasize this point. The Shopsmith as the foundation around which to build a 380-400 square foot workshop that can support the woodworking habits of most all of those that do our work in this niche.

Our entire studio area is 384 square feet -- machines, tools, workbench, bookcase, lights, cameras, monitors, control console. I rarely get out of a 150-square-foot patch in the corner when we're shooting. How much more cramped can we be?

With all good wishes,

Nick, It doesn't matter how cramped you feel. What matters is how spaceous the shop appears on my monitor and the monitor of most every one else watching.

However, the point was suppose to be a suggestion about how you might present one of the Shopsmith's major advantages over the competition. Telling potential customers that the Mark V resides "in the space of a bicycle" doesn't cut the mustard.

Demonstrating week after week on the Sawdust Sessions, and making a major point of it, does differentiate the Shopsmith from the competition. The fact that the Shopsmith has a tilting table and a 1 1/8 HP motor differentiates it too but not in the way you want to emphasize.

At least consider posting a graphic that shows your 384 sq ft shop is adequate space for a Shopsmith woodshop; adequate space for a Mark V, the dust collector, a power station with a band saw or planer attached, a router table, etc.

OK. I'm done. I tried.

woodburner wrote:...Maybe it is time for Shopsmith to update and offer a more modern system. Electronic controls, better safety off switches, different size HP motors, spiral cutterheads in the jointer and planer, removable tailstock with an adjustable morse taper like a standard lathe has, electronic variable speed with electronic readout. The list can go on and on.

Why the updates? Because that is what the single-purpose tool makers are offering. They are continuely updating their products and that is what makes the sales. I hate to say it, but when someone says, and actually brags about, how Shopsmith hasn't changed their basic model for more than fifty years, it makes me kringe.

Here's an example of that: How many of you would prefer to buy a new computer that hasn't changed or been updated for 30 years, or will you rather buy one that has all the latest technology built into it?...

I disagree first most single purpose tools were/are designed 50 years ago. Look at a Delta contractor saw, or the Unisaw. They basically look like they did 50 years ago. Perhaps a different name or a different fence but the saw basically is the same.

I have enough electronics that can't be fixed now, I don't need more. I think we have all heard the horror stories of people that had their car computer go out and the cost of fixing it. Thanks but no thanks, not in a shop filled with dust, heat and high humidity.

As for more horse power my question is why? I haven't been able to use what I already have. Spiral cutters are nice but pricey. I would like a better on/off switch. As for morse tapers and such I don't do enough turning that it bothers me perhaps if I did it would.

As for the analogy with computers, I think your missing the point, tools have changed, it has gone from flint axe heads, to hand powered saws, to powered saws. Perhaps one day we will all own a laser cutter that bores, rip and crosscut and can be set to shave down wood on the lathe before it.

I still think Shopsmith is fighting the mine is bigger, faster, heavier than yours battle and is losing. The first thing rookie woodworkers are taught by the "experts" is it must be big, it must be heavy, it must be cast iron, it must have at least a zillion horse power.

I saw some talking about moveability. I have read, what I saw as horror stories of guys disassembling 5 horse power Unisaws and sliding the pieces down basement stairways. Their stories were met with praise and admiration from their fellow woodworkers. I guy that believes he must have a 5 hp Unisaw to cut 3/4 ply to build his birdhouses does not care about moving the beast.

I have seen talk about space. While that is a consideration I have two friends that have full shops with individual pieces and to use any they must wheel them out to the drive. I show them my SS and the first thing out of their mouths is, it doesn't have 3 hp and any cast iron so it can't be any good.

Fact is I know guys that would rather have a Unisaw buried under tons of junk and not be able to use it because cleaning out the mess would be a 2 week task rather than have a SS that they could use whenever they needed.

Why? Because it has "POWER" and "CAST IRON" and Norm has one and Norm said you should buy your saw first, it should have the most HP you can afford and should be built out of Cast iron. Woodworker rookie listens, goes to HD, there he sees they have a Cast IRON "Contractor" (must be professional) saw for less than $600 bucks. Ain't a UNisaw like Norms but it is big and cast iron and called a contractors saw so it has to be good.

Most interesting part. HD only sells their contractor saws from pictures. They took the floor models out about a year ago. Today if you want one you look at the picture, and buy the box. No demo, no touch, no playing with the fence.

Shopsmith has got to get a presence where people see them as a viable way to get into woodworking. I still believe SS needs to sponsor a New Yankee Woodworker type show.
Justaned

I once had the pleasure of inspecting Duncan Phyfe's tool box at the New York Historical Society in New York. While I didn't get to hold any of the original tools, I would guess that the heaviest among them was a wooden jointer plane that certainly weighed no more than 20 pounds. My Shopsmith weighs about 200 pounds -- more when the switch is on and the wires are full of electrons. That, according to todays' myth-conceptions, makes me -- makes us all -- ten times the craftsmen that Duncan Phyfe could ever hope to be.

Thank gawd. I was getting awfully tired of feeling like I was always in his shadow.

With all good wishes,

I have a 1967 Camaro. I can work on it myself: Everything from changing the spark plugs to replacing the bearings and rings. If it has a problem, I can diagnose and repair it. No "service Engine Soon" light, no computers, no 1000 page service manuals, and no metric tools.

I have a 2007 Impala. I can change the oil. Everything else I leave to the dealership. Oh, I can change a starter or an alternator, but you get what I mean.

I have a 2001 Olds Alero. A couple of years ago, I got in it at a store parking lot and it wood knot start. The battery was good; I had a full tank of gas; the starter turned over, but it wood knot start. Because I have decided that newer cars are just too complicated for my simple mind to figure out, I towed it to the nearest dealership. The next day, they called me and reported that my ignition switch did knot recognize my key and therefore, the security system wood knot allow the car to start. The new switch, along with the labor, and the diagnosis cost me over $700!

I like my ShopSmith. I can repair it myself (especially with a little on-line help from you guys when needed), I can easily get replacement parts, I can align it without special tools, I can get superb customer service. What about other brand equipment, those with lasers and printed circuit boards? I will say that I think Sears still does a pretty good job (their parts break downs and parts availability is better then most others excepting ShopSmith, of course), but who else? There is something to say for the "plain-Jane" model. I wood rather own equipment that I can keep running, rather then send it out for repair.

And one more thing: My dad bought an....inexpensive...(CHEAP) generator. A switch went bad on it. He can knot get a replacement switch. The store he bought it from can knot get parts. He can knot replace it with a different switch: The switch is proprietory and has several wires going/coming from/to it. A buddy of mine who owns a small engine repair shop says he can knot fix it; that he can knot get a replacement switch, and without the switch it is an anchor. Guess where it was made! China strikes again. My point of this story is simple: After owning a piece of this foriegn made equipment, if some, seemingly small thing goes wrong with it, can you afford to throw it out and replace it with another, due to the inability to get parts?

As I've said earlier, I hate computers. Yes, they are necessary for the way we all operate today, but every once and a while they fail. Usually when you really depend on them to perform NOW!

However I must disagree that all of these things are foreign made. Although the Silicone Valley is in CA, I think it is in the U.S.