Shopsmith Forums

Gene Howe wrote:I'll try again.
Once a perfect joint is achieved in short pieces of scrap, save that joint. Make all your joints at that configuration.
Later, you want to use a different thickness. So, save that scrap joint too.
Then, when you want to make joints at a previous setting, use the previously made scrap joint as a template.
It's no big deal folks. I have 4 siizes of joints saved.

I totally agree. That is what I have done here.

OK I'm trying to figure out how a template works for this. Perhaps a tutorial is in order?

Do keep in mind that in addition to the jig you might need a set of blades to use. I opted for one of the two blade arrangements that provides 1/4" and 3/8" cuts. If I go larger, which I haven't done then I'd have to got to the stacked dado set. They normally want you to use those sorts of blades rather then a wobble style.

The issue of resetting up is more of an issue with a shopsmith. The relationship of the blade is not all that well defined. The jig is located by the miter slot and then blade is in relation to a rubber stopper located table which defines where the miter slot is. I've played with this several times and well things don't automatically end up back where you want them.

If you are worried about being able to recreate a joint it might be best done on a router table. Here a template might work. Same with things cuts on a regular table saw where those sort of things don't get moved around much.

Keep in mind for all this to work on a shopsmith a lot has to come together. The jig is mounted to align to the miter slot so how much fun is that to get in the exact same blade location, which means making sure the miter slot to blade distance is right on, and the blade is mounted just like it was, same washer locations etc. Blade has to be exact same width, same shims if they are used. Any of these change and you are not going to align. What happen when you realign your machine? Well maybe Dusty gets his back to where it was but I don't. Just saying a lot of things have to go right....

Ed

reible wrote:OK I'm trying to figure out how a template works for this. Perhaps a tutorial is in order?

Do keep in mind that in addition to the jig you might need a set of blades to use. I opted for one of the two blade arrangements that provides 1/4" and 3/8" cuts. If I go larger, which I haven't done then I'd have to got to the stacked dado set. They normally want you to use those sorts of blades rather then a wobble style.

The issue of resetting up is more of an issue with a shopsmith. The relationship of the blade is not all that well defined. The jig is located by the miter slot and then blade is in relation to a rubber stopper located table which defines where the miter slot is. I've played with this several times and well things don't automatically end up back where you want them.

If you are worried about being able to recreate a joint it might be best done on a router table. Here a template might work. Same with things cuts on a regular table saw where those sort of things don't get moved around much.

Keep in mind for all this to work on a shopsmith a lot has to come together. The jig is mounted to align to the miter slot so how much fun is that to get in the exact same blade location, which means making sure the miter slot to blade distance is right on, and the blade is mounted just like it was, same washer locations etc. Blade has to be exact same width, same shims if they are used. Any of these change and you are not going to align. What happen when you realign your machine? Well maybe Dusty gets his back to where it was but I don't. Just saying a lot of things have to go right....

Ed

I'm just a bit confused here. Yes, I understand that the location of the blade is a big variable when using the Shopsmith but let's put that aside for a moment.

When you set up the Incra for work, isn't one of the very first steps to align the Incra to the Miter Slot and this is done by "moving the Incra Jig until the pin plates "kiss" the blade"? If so, the rubber bumper, quill position, etc are not in the equation.

If I understand this "kissing game" correctly, all of this concern about the rubber bumper, etc becomes mute so long as the Shopsmith remains locked in that setup mode. The actual distance of the blade to the miter slot seems immaterial so long as it does not change after setup. If this is not a true statement then I must start all over to understand the Incra Jigs' limitations.

I do understand that there are many uncontrollable variables in the Shopsmith table system. These must all be taken into consideration and minimized to the greatest extent possible to obtain any sort of reliable results. Let us not debate those issues in this thread. Let's keep this discussion on the limitations and capabilities of the Incra I-Box Jig.

Since the unit on which the IBox is used is outfitted with the old Jointech Saw Train with the router table, the lateral position of the quill, head stock or table never changes. I'm too lazy to go through all that's necessary to alter that set up. Consequently, once the I Box is aligned, it remains so. My ZCIs are fitted to a centered rip blade, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 and 3/4 dado sets. It might require 10 minutes to change from rip to a previously set I Box configuration.
The next time some box joints are needed, I'll try to remember the camera.

dusty wrote:

reible wrote:OK I'm trying to figure out how a template works for this. Perhaps a tutorial is in order?

Do keep in mind that in addition to the jig you might need a set of blades to use. I opted for one of the two blade arrangements that provides 1/4" and 3/8" cuts. If I go larger, which I haven't done then I'd have to got to the stacked dado set. They normally want you to use those sorts of blades rather then a wobble style.

The issue of resetting up is more of an issue with a shopsmith. The relationship of the blade is not all that well defined. The jig is located by the miter slot and then blade is in relation to a rubber stopper located table which defines where the miter slot is. I've played with this several times and well things don't automatically end up back where you want them.

If you are worried about being able to recreate a joint it might be best done on a router table. Here a template might work. Same with things cuts on a regular table saw where those sort of things don't get moved around much.

Keep in mind for all this to work on a shopsmith a lot has to come together. The jig is mounted to align to the miter slot so how much fun is that to get in the exact same blade location, which means making sure the miter slot to blade distance is right on, and the blade is mounted just like it was, same washer locations etc. Blade has to be exact same width, same shims if they are used. Any of these change and you are not going to align. What happen when you realign your machine? Well maybe Dusty gets his back to where it was but I don't. Just saying a lot of things have to go right....

Ed

I'm just a bit confused here. Yes, I understand that the location of the blade is a big variable when using the Shopsmith but let's put that aside for a moment.

When you set up the Incra for work, isn't one of the very first steps to align the Incra to the Miter Slot and this is done by "moving the Incra Jig until the pin plates "kiss" the blade"? If so, the rubber bumper, quill position, etc are not in the equation.

If I understand this "kissing game" correctly, all of this concern about the rubber bumper, etc becomes mute so long as the Shopsmith remains locked in that setup mode. The actual distance of the blade to the miter slot seems immaterial so long as it does not change after setup. If this is not a true statement then I must start all over to understand the Incra Jigs' limitations.

I do understand that there are many uncontrollable variables in the Shopsmith table system. These must all be taken into consideration and minimized to the greatest extent possible to obtain any sort of reliable results. Let us not debate those issues in this thread. Let's keep this discussion on the limitations and capabilities of the Incra I-Box Jig.

Yes, the "Kissing game" is what makes it so flexible, I switch back and forth between router table and Shopsmith table no problem at all. But, the adjustment for blade width is a dial adjustment making it infinitely variable, and the shopsmith blade height is a rack and pinion adjustment making it infinitely variable.
The I-Box jig is my only box joint jig now. The miter tracks being different distances from the blade or bit is no problem either. Easy adjustment. The only thing I do differently than some of the others is not mess with setup blocks for box joints, and I no longer have a box joint jig for the 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", or 3/4" router bits. I do have set up blocks for other table saw or router projects , just not the box joints anymore.

moggymatt wrote:

dusty wrote:

reible wrote:OK I'm trying to figure out how a template works for this. Perhaps a tutorial is in order?

Do keep in mind that in addition to the jig you might need a set of blades to use. I opted for one of the two blade arrangements that provides 1/4" and 3/8" cuts. If I go larger, which I haven't done then I'd have to got to the stacked dado set. They normally want you to use those sorts of blades rather then a wobble style.

The issue of resetting up is more of an issue with a shopsmith. The relationship of the blade is not all that well defined. The jig is located by the miter slot and then blade is in relation to a rubber stopper located table which defines where the miter slot is. I've played with this several times and well things don't automatically end up back where you want them.

If you are worried about being able to recreate a joint it might be best done on a router table. Here a template might work. Same with things cuts on a regular table saw where those sort of things don't get moved around much.

Keep in mind for all this to work on a shopsmith a lot has to come together. The jig is mounted to align to the miter slot so how much fun is that to get in the exact same blade location, which means making sure the miter slot to blade distance is right on, and the blade is mounted just like it was, same washer locations etc. Blade has to be exact same width, same shims if they are used. Any of these change and you are not going to align. What happen when you realign your machine? Well maybe Dusty gets his back to where it was but I don't. Just saying a lot of things have to go right....

Ed

I'm just a bit confused here. Yes, I understand that the location of the blade is a big variable when using the Shopsmith but let's put that aside for a moment.

When you set up the Incra for work, isn't one of the very first steps to align the Incra to the Miter Slot and this is done by "moving the Incra Jig until the pin plates "kiss" the blade"? If so, the rubber bumper, quill position, etc are not in the equation.

If I understand this "kissing game" correctly, all of this concern about the rubber bumper, etc becomes mute so long as the Shopsmith remains locked in that setup mode. The actual distance of the blade to the miter slot seems immaterial so long as it does not change after setup. If this is not a true statement then I must start all over to understand the Incra Jigs' limitations.

I do understand that there are many uncontrollable variables in the Shopsmith table system. These must all be taken into consideration and minimized to the greatest extent possible to obtain any sort of reliable results. Let us not debate those issues in this thread. Let's keep this discussion on the limitations and capabilities of the Incra I-Box Jig.

Yes, the "Kissing game" is what makes it so flexible, I switch back and forth between router table and Shopsmith table no problem at all. But, the adjustment for blade width is a dial adjustment making it infinitely variable, and the shopsmith blade height is a rack and pinion adjustment making it infinitely variable.
The I-Box jig is my only box joint jig now. The miter tracks being different distances from the blade or bit is no problem either. Easy adjustment. The only thing I do differently than some of the others is not mess with setup blocks for box joints, and I no longer have a box joint jig for the 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", or 3/4" router bits. I do have set up blocks for other table saw or router projects , just not the box joints anymore.

How then do you return to a previous setup?

dusty wrote:
How then do you return to a previous setup?

I never do. Each production run ( 1 or more boxes), gets set up independently. Takes less than 5 minutes. Center blade or bit, Set height of blade or bit slightly proud, Kiss blade or bit with closed calipers, expand partially and make a test cut. (Always mark the top and outsides)Expand calipers to fit test cut ( practice and the just right amount of friction for a proper fit will be second nature) and off you go. A fresh backer board keeps blow out to a minimum, and keeping the jig clean will make sure the wood will sit all the way down on the jig and not make a shallow cut. (That second point is my downfall if I go too long between uses)

moggymatt wrote:

dusty wrote:
How then do you return to a previous setup?

I never do. Each production run ( 1 or more boxes), gets set up independently. Takes less than 5 minutes. Center blade or bit, Set height of blade or bit slightly proud, Kiss blade or bit with closed calipers, expand partially and make a test cut. (Always mark the top and outsides)Expand calipers to fit test cut ( practice and the just right amount of friction for a proper fit will be second nature) and off you go. A fresh backer board keeps blow out to a minimum, and keeping the jig clean will make sure the wood will sit all the way down on the jig and not make a shallow cut. (That second point is my downfall if I go too long between uses)

Wow! That makes me warm and fuzzy! That is what I was hoping the jig would do. I don't mind setting up for each run, just don't want to spend an hour doing it ....

Thanks moggymatt!

dusty wrote: I'm just a bit confused here. Yes, I understand that the location of the blade is a big variable when using the Shopsmith but let's put that aside for a moment.

When you set up the Incra for work, isn't one of the very first steps to align the Incra to the Miter Slot and this is done by "moving the Incra Jig until the pin plates "kiss" the blade"? If so, the rubber bumper, quill position, etc are not in the equation.

If I understand this "kissing game" correctly, all of this concern about the rubber bumper, etc becomes mute so long as the Shopsmith remains locked in that setup mode. The actual distance of the blade to the miter slot seems immaterial so long as it does not change after setup. If this is not a true statement then I must start all over to understand the Incra Jigs' limitations.

I do understand that there are many uncontrollable variables in the Shopsmith table system. These must all be taken into consideration and minimized to the greatest extent possible to obtain any sort of reliable results. Let us not debate those issues in this thread. Let's keep this discussion on the limitations and capabilities of the Incra I-Box Jig.

The question I was responding to is being able to do repeatable joints to match a previous joint set done before, after the set up has been broken down and then set back up. It is not going to be as simple as putting the jig back on and cutting more joints. Getting everything back to the "same" is more difficult on a shopsmith with it having less "fixed" locations.

If I would find myself in that situation I would do a cold restart to find a matching but not necessarily exact same location position and adjust to get a fit to the old parts. From my experience with shopsmith this is often my approach. I have played with various means of duplication of table to blade locations fallen short of the accuracy I would like to have.

I'm very confident that I can get a set up to duplicate a previous joint but it is not going to be a slam dunk. Much better to do all the parts at one time and not have to go back.

If I had to go back often to do replacement parts I'd be looking at using the router table where I feel I'd have more things controlled for me. A standard table saw would be a second choice since it too has more controlled locations.

Repeatably over a single setting and use is excellent, once taken down and reset perfect match ups could happen but it is just as likely to not happen on a shopsmith.

Hope this clears up what I was trying to say earlier.

Ed

OKAY. I am done debating this decision. I thank all of you who responded. I placed an order today for an Incra I-Box.