rough cut lumber questions.

[dlbristol]

I am still working to get some pictures, but until a new OSX arrives, No GO. In the mean time, I followed some advice from the forum and used slots ( rather than mortises) in the head and foot rails for installing the vertical slats.( I played with the mortising chisels in the oak I was using, and it is so hard I am sure the slots were the only way to go) The plans call for mortises, and for the tenons to have1/4 in shoulder on each side. ( normal tenon) My question is: would I be better off to leave the tenons the full width of the slats and fill the slot flush to the tenon, or cut the tenons and try to fill under the shoulder? The tenons are cut and fit well, but there is some slight variation on the width of the slot that might require me to do some adjustment to the filler strips. Slot varies from .253 in to .261in.

Thanks guys.

[charlese]

Hi, dlbristol! Yes slots will work just as well as mortises. Yes, the fillets between slats always take some fitting. However I've found fillets is also a good way to go.

Excuse these descriptions - I'm thinking while typing:

It is entirely up to you if you want to under-fill the slats. You would be able to under-fill all except the last slat. Then the last fillet would not fit vertically and would have to be tapered, or mitered in order to slant it into the groove. This is IF you make all of the fillets fit tightly up against the tenons.

Another way to under-fill is to cut each of the fillets a little short of touching each tenon. That way, you will be able to slide the slats sideways so the last fillet will fall into place.

All of that said - fillets without under filling (in other words straight sides on the slats) might be easier. The only vertical slats I have done into a slot were in Craftsman tables. There were only three straight slats per side and they fit into a stopped groove. Pictures below. I found that small clamps on each fillet closed any gap there was between the sides of the groove and the fillet.

The names of the photos kinda explain what's going on.

[dlbristol]

Thanks, I think that I will stay away from the under cutting, and just flush fit them. Thanks for the pictures, they are pretty much what I am trying to do. just more of them, and one wideer one in the center. Learning a lot on this project, and very glad I have willing helpers! I feel like I may have learned enough to ask better questions anyway. I'm still thinking on the procedure for fitting the whole assembly together, but thats a question for another day.

[charlese]

Thanks, I think that I will stay away from the under cutting, and just flush fit them. Thanks for the pictures, they are pretty much what I am trying to do. just more of them, and one wideer one in the center. Learning a lot on this project, and very glad I have willing helpers! I feel like I may have learned enough to ask better questions anyway. I'm still thinking on the procedure for fitting the whole assembly together, but thats a question for another day.

Had another thought - Since you are going to be putting many vertical slats in I'm thinking you should undercut several of them toward the center of the head/foot. My thinking here is, the collective expansion/contraction of many slats might get appreciable. You can cut tenons on the several center slats in order to later install under-cut fillets that leave a 16th inch on both sides of the tenons. This should give the slats some small amounts of expansion/contraction room without any cracks showing.

Concerning the assembly - First glue up the posts and the bottom rail, While the top of the frame is "DRY FIT" and making sure the posts are square. If the top of the frame fits into the sides to make this impossible, then loosely fit the slats into the grooves and glue up the four corners. Of course you would first want to dry fit the whose assembly to figure out how your clamps will fit and make sure all the parts fit squarely and snugly.

[dlbristol]

Thanks, I am still working on all of the ideas. There are 6 1 1/2 in slats and 1 6 in slat on each head/foot board. I hadn't thought to much about them moving that much, but you might be right. It probably won't take much to open up some cracks. I was not going to clue the slats, but a if the spacers are glued tight against the slats they might an issue.
I just got my new osx installed, but still have not been able to post photos.
I will keep working on them

[charlese]

O.K.!! I wouldn't worry about expansion of the 1 1/2" slats, the 6 inchers are the only ones I would trim a little. If you made a smaller tenon on the ends of the 6" slats, then you could glue just a small area in the center of that tenon. Glue about a half inch in the center only. This would make it an easy thing to slide a fillet beneath those. If it were mine, I wouldn't bother with undercutting the 3ea, 1 1/2" slats on both sides of the larger center slat, even if they are flat sawn.

[dlbristol]

I have OXS up, and I think I can post photos now. In order they are:
a sample of the 5/4 rough stock for the side rails,( badly stained end)
the 4/4 rough stock for the other rails and parts, ( probably to rough for a beginner)
a finished end rail cut from 4/4 stock,
rail caps from 4/4 stock and a side rail from 5/4 stock.
I have other photos, but I will hold photos until I have some assembly done.
Between re-wiring the shop, my brides " priority projects, # 4 son"s need to finance a molecular Biology class and the computer issues, I have made little progress in the last few weeks. I will get there.

[dlbristol]

I am trying to plan the sequence for assembling the head and foot board on this bed. Here are pics of the footboard assembly, a close up of the slats and cap boards. There are no mortises, I used slots and have the fillers laid out on the spreaders. I have dry fit everything and it fits well. The dowels are tight but allow for enough movement that they can be put together. There is not much room to move the top or bottom spreaders after one or the other is put into the legs. My question is what is the best way to get it all together?
I am concerned about getting it all squared up. My initial plan was to put the slats in the top and bottom spreader, align the slats and glue in the spacers on the bottom. Then put the bottom spreader into the legs gluing and squaring them, mount the top spreader, square the assembly and the put in the spacers on top. The cap boards have to be fastened to the top spreader before the spacers go in because the screws go through the slots.
I have built some extenders for the long (64 in ) clamping distance, and have 6 clamps left to do the vertical clamping.
When I dry fit the cap boards it takes a lot of clamping pressure, and much torque to get them to set down on the spreaders. I think I have to do that first.
After some thought, I wonder if doing the slats into both spreaders, gluing the spacers and then putting the legs on might be better. Squaring it up seems iffy this way. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks as always for your help.
As a rookie, I have learned a lot from this set of plans which does not include any " step by step" instructions. In fact the tell you to figure it out and you will be a better wood worker! True, but I am in a bit deeper than I am capable of handling alone. I don't want to redo this is I can help it.

[charlese]

I am trying to plan the sequence for assembling the head and foot board on this bed. Here are pics of the footboard assembly, a close up of the slats and cap boards. There are no mortises, I used slots and have the fillers laid out on the spreaders. I have dry fit everything and it fits well. The dowels are tight but allow for enough movement that they can be put together. There is not much room to move the top or bottom spreaders after one or the other is put into the legs. My question is what is the best way to get it all together?
I am concerned about getting it all squared up. My initial plan was to put the slats in the top and bottom spreader, align the slats and glue in the spacers on the bottom. Then put the bottom spreader into the legs gluing and squaring them, mount the top spreader, square the assembly and the put in the spacers on top. The cap boards have to be fastened to the top spreader before the spacers go in because the screws go through the slots.
I have built some extenders for the long (64 in ) clamping distance, and have 6 clamps left to do the vertical clamping.
When I dry fit the cap boards it takes a lot of clamping pressure, and much torque to get them to set down on the spreaders. I think I have to do that first.
After some thought, I wonder if doing the slats into both spreaders, gluing the spacers and then putting the legs on might be better. Squaring it up seems iffy this way. I would like to hear your thoughts. Thanks as always for your help.
As a rookie, I have learned a lot from this set of plans which does not include any " step by step" instructions. In fact the tell you to figure it out and you will be a better wood worker! True, but I am in a bit deeper than I am capable of handling alone. I don't want to redo this is I can help it.

Hi, D.L.! You've done a lot of good work here! It won't go to waste!

Here's the plan (I think) - - I see the pilot holes for the crews that connect the caps to the spreaders. That's the Key!

-First put the cap boards onto the spreaders.
-Next just lay the slats into the grooves - NO glue in the slots at this time - just let the slats lay in the spreaders in approximately their chosen places.
-Next glue up the legs (clamped) to the spreaders. In order to make it square, measure from one corner to the opposite side's corner (the diagonals) and apply a long clamp to draw in the widest corner to corner angle. Even with a lot of pressure directly across the spreaders, it won't take much pressure on the diagonal clamp to bring the unit into square.
-Lastly slide the slats in the grooves and insert the spacers with glue. There will be enough glue to also hold the slats. Don't worry about glueing the slats themselves. They aren't going to go anywhere!

You will probably have to go out and buy some pipe clamps. The clamps can be bought at Lowe's or Home Depot. You can get them to fit either 1/2" or 3/4" pipe. Then get some black pipe long enough to reach corner to opposite diagonal corner. YOU CAN'T HAVE ENOUGH CLAMPS! If your better half objects, tell her pipe clamps are the least expensive of all and show her this post.

The good thing about pipe clamps is they can be shortened for future uses.

P.S. You will need some small clamps to squeeze the groove together after you put glue in the slot and insert the spacer(s). You will have squeeze out here - so be prepared with a putty knife and a damp rag to wipe away all squeeze out.

The reason for clamping the spacers sideways is to hide any gaps that may occur. It will just look better! If short on clamps for this purpose, you can do one slat spacer at a time. No rush here.

[dlbristol]

Hey, thanks for help. I had not thought of putting all the spacers in last, but that makes sense. I was concerned about having enough flex in that part of the assembly. I have some pipe clamps, just need to get a longer pipe. I might make up some corner blocks to fit the cap board corners as well. Those corners might be a bit oddly shaped to just hook the clamp head onto.
I am also thinking about finishing the parts before I do the final assembly, any thoughts?