Page 3 of 4
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:56 pm
by a1gutterman
I will give you my take on your questions...
perryobear wrote:...1. The old (1955) edition of PTWFE shows a technique of turning the miter gauge around (using it backwards) when cross-cutting wider boards. It includes the following text and a full page photo:
“]photo[/I] opposite page) increases the available table length somewhat, because it eliminates the space needed for the miter-gauge head. With this method a board 12” wide can be cut with ease.”
Question: I would never have thought of doing that with my miter gauge. Do any of you ever use this method? Do you think this method has been edited out from the later editions of PTWFE for reasons other than maybe just saving space?
Like another responder, I wood not likely use the miter guage in this manner, as I can visualize it falling off the end of the table, also, it wood be hard to keep your hand on the Safety Grip/Quick-Clamp while doing it that way. I do, however, have experience using a shopmade sled that works like that, and for the very reason that you described.
2. Chapter 2 gives us the basic definitions of cross-cutting and ripping. It relates the two cuts mainly to the orientation of the wood grain during the cut. It goes on to discuss making cross-cuts only in terms of using the miter gauge. It limits the use of the fence only as a length gauge (with an appropriate spacer block installed) for making repetitive cuts. I am often working with fairly short lengths (cutoffs) of stock. I think this is true of many of us and I smiled at Ed's comment earlier in this thread about not marking your cutoffs with a gigantic “X”.
Question: Is it ever OK to use your fence (without the miter gauge) when cross-cutting? And, If it is, what “rules of thumb” would apply?
I lend the following hypothetical situation as an example:
I have a piece of 1”x10” pine cutoff about 12” long. It has a good square end. The project I am working on requires this piece to be shortened to 10” long. Do I try to set this cross-cut up with my miter gauge (forward or backwards
)? Or, Could I just set my fence to 10” and make the cross-cut that way, leaving the waste material to the outside of the blade? Would you change your answer if the cutoff stock was a grainless piece of MDF with the same dimensions?
Others have pointed out to you exactly how the grain determines what type of cut you are making. I agree with you that you should be able to make the type of crosscut that you are describing, with a fence alone. I have done so many times. You do knot have the long board that leads to a bind which creates the potential for kick-back. As you pointed out, there is no grain with some materials. When I do perform that operation (cross-cut with the fence alone), I "feel" that the wood does knot slide along the fence as well as it does in a ripping operation, and so IMHO, the operation is still a bit more dangerous then a ripping operation. Make sure to use a push block and be careful knot to bind the board. This being said, I agree with Ed R. that a sled wood be the safest way.
Dennis
BTW, Members without PTWFE; our "Bible" is on sale right now, through Monday:
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/specials/7PH17.htm?jn=10755&
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:31 pm
by charlese
perryobear wrote:Hi everyone,
...“The trick of turning the miter gauge around and using it backwards in the slot (
photo opposite page) increases the available table length somewhat, because it eliminates the space needed for the miter-gauge head. With this method a board 12” wide can be cut with ease.”...
...
Question: I would never have thought of doing that with my miter gauge. Do any of you ever use this method? Do you think this method has been edited out from the later editions of PTWFE for reasons other than maybe just saving space?....
Question: Is it ever OK to use your fence (without the miter gauge) when cross-cutting? And, If it is, what “rules of thumb” would apply?
I lend the following hypothetical situation as an example:
I have a piece of 1”x10” pine cutoff about 12” long. It has a good square end. The project I am working on requires this piece to be shortened to 10” long. Do I try to set this cross-cut up with my miter gauge (forward or backwards
)? Or, Could I just set my fence to 10” and make the cross-cut that way, leaving the waste material to the outside of the blade? Would you change your answer if the cutoff stock was a grainless piece of MDF with the same dimensions?
Dennis
I'll comment on these two questions.
First - I don't believe I would ever think of using the miter gauge backwards. That said,
Only if the tail end of the piece were firmly clamped (affixed) to a fence extension would I even consider it. If the tail end of a board being cross cut ever drags away from the miter extension, the tail end of the saw cut would press on the saw blade, causing a crooked cut or worse.
A MUCH better choice would be to use a sled.
Next - Is it O.K. to cross cut without a miter gauge? By definition a cross cut is across the grain. You are asking it it's O.K. to cut a 10" X 10" piece with using only the rip fence. Truthfully, I have done this in the past, but no more!!!! Haven't had any kind of accident doing this, however I always felt uneasy. With the fence to the right and myself positioned to the right of the fence, I had to hold the piece very tightly with both hands up against the rip fence. This was not comfortable in my mind and also, if the leading edge of the piece should have slipped, disaster could have happened.
Now - these days, I will use a sled.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:41 pm
by charlese
A little bit of a subject change - Has anyone here built and used a taper jig like the one in figure 2-56? It's the last figure in this chapter.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:45 pm
by reible
Sometimes I guess you need to bend the rules a bit and for educational reason post a picture from an earlier version of the book.
I'm not really sure what people are picturing for how the backwards miter gauge idea works and for that reason I want to post an image of just how it does work.
[ATTACH]3345[/ATTACH]
Keep in mind the small table and the small piece of wood... you are only trying to gain a small advantage, if you have one of the earlier manuals take a look at the section (smaller lighter yellow cover one it is on page 23, a squaring board is shown used the same way on page 27).
Ed
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:58 pm
by charlese
Hmmmm! Thanks Ed! Now the picture in my mind has changed, but my thinking remains unchanged.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:59 pm
by reible
Yes I have, but not the one shown there, I used the plans from the older book with the same basic design. Then one day shopsmith had a sale and I purchased the black metal one and I used the parts of the wood one for other things... now I wish I hadn't done that. Don't get me wrong the metal one is OK it is just I would like to have all the 500 jigs and fixtures I made to pass on to the kids along with the shopsmith.
Ed
charlese wrote:A little bit of a subject change - Has anyone here built and used a taper jig like the one in figure 2-56? It's the last figure in this chapter.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:00 pm
by reible
Like I said there are better ways.
Ed
charlese wrote:Hmmmm! Thanks Ed! Now the picture in my mind has changed, but my thinking remains unchanged.
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:26 pm
by reible
There are several things at the end of the chapter that are really wonderful ideas, I'll just point out a couple that I found very useful especially when used with the 500 table.
Reference figure 2-28. This is another of the items I built and it sure make my life easier. Mine was not quite like the one pictured but the idea is the same. With the added table space and "extras" that you can get for the 510/520 I have not taken the time to make another one but I may one of these days. On the 500 it was ideal for so many projects... I have some posts here or somewhere about this attachment and at the time I couldn't find it but this fall I located it... I'm going to keep it for when I get another 500. If you have the 500 I'd put this on the list of things to build.
The second life save is not shown but you can get the idea from what is shown in 2-49. When I would cut up larger sheets of plywood/MDF/hardboard etc it was easier to attach a board to the sheet and use that as the fence and slide along the edge of the 500 table. This also worked great for leaving the main table (head stock) and extensions in place for cutting up the stock rather then having to relocate so the rip fence would be in the right place. I used this idea a countless number of times. The added nicety is that you only need a couple of clamps and a straight edge.
I thought I had lost the capacity when I upgraded to the 520 only to notice in the book figure 2-50. You don't have the same capacity that is provided by the 500 setup but you do at least have a way to regain some of it.
Back to the figure 2-49, this is also a hand item to make but I'd say make it longer and have several holes along the way so you can fit different size pieces of wood in it and clamp them better... and knobs rather the what they show.
Ed
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:52 am
by nuhobby
Hi,
In review of this chapter, I realized that the table-saw has some assets that the bandsaw can't duplicate, for making exactly parallel smooth faces on workpieces. One of my favorite dress-ups for wood pens is to use a small slice of drilled Corian as the middle decorative band (replacing the narrow gold ring normally included in the kit). I made a special sled for doing these delicate cuts with a better safety factor..... This photo got messed-up in my several clips/pastes, and now it looks like it's grainy enough for the other PTWFE shots!
back side miter
Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:46 am
by dlbristol
I saw this, and questioned it. Not that I have ever done it, but I have tried a few things that I was not comfortable with and the tool " taught me why I was uncomfortable" more times than not. This may be fine, but I "ain't convinced".
As an old teacher and coach, I would look at some of the ideas I would see and ask, " Is this something I would teach to my students or players"?. If I had any doubts or concerns, I did not do it. As was said, there are better ways. Besides, I now have a safety reason for getting one of those neat sleds!!
Another thing all teachers and coaches know is that using the "S Word", ( Safety) is often all you need to get what you are asking for. ( Be ethical of course)