shaper setup problem?

[JPG]

I have experienced exactly the same problems that z-man is describing with my shaper fence setup. I have a 510, so it should set up like the pictures in PTWFE, but it doesn't. I have a 510/520/Speed increaser fence.

When using the miter gauge for end graining, I have never been able to use the feather board in the fully down position to contact the wood as shown in the PTWFE reference. The feather board keeps hitting the miter gauge, preventing me from pushing the miter gauge through.

When using my miter gauge with the safety grip, my holddown has about an inch of sideways play where it contacts the workpiece. So, as the end grain touches the cutter, the wood slides away because the holddown slips sideways. This leads to the cut at the beginning being deeper than the cut as the end of the piece.

I hope this thread will get me some answers, too.

We need pix badly!

[charlese]

Hey there. Anyone have any ideas what me and my son are doing wrong when it comes to successfully using our SS shaper to use the rail and stile cutters? Our problem is that when we shape the end grain the result is always out of square. We've worked and worked again to try to get the miter guage square to the shaper fence and all of that square to the table, but we keep ending up with scrap wood.

In all cases, the cutter is cutting deeper at the beginning edge of the work piece than at the end. It's like the work piece is gradually moving away from the fence.

Any ideas?

Many thanks.

PS I've had my SS for 25 years but this is my first post. Glad I found this forum.

Hi zman! I think the solution to your problem is quite simple and does not require squaring anything to miter slots.

Instead of using the miter gauge - use a square push block!
a) Clamp your workpiece to the push block (keeping the stop block flush to the fence) and using your stile cutter, take a light cut only.
b)Then crank the whole table a little closer to the cutter and do another pass. (use the table as a depth control)
c)You can repeat this last step if needed.

The adjustable table stop will help in this operation, as will a vertical feather board.

[dusty]

z-man, tryinhard, et al,

I thought that I was going to add some pictures but the camera battery is dead. After recharge, if this issue has not been resolved, I'll post a couple.

However, the pictures are NOT likely to resolve the issue. They will, in fact, reinforce the observations that have been stated here.

There is very little to no clearance when the "quill mounted featherboard" is lowered down to where it can effective.

I haven't mounted any cutters yet and I may not. Using the shaper is the only time that I have been seriously injured in the shop and I found, today when I was setting to see this issue for myself, that I realized the fear has not gone away. We'll see.

[dusty]

Is still not resolved. It appears to me that interference between a miter gauge and the "quill mounted featherboard" is inevitable.

[ATTACH]7024[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]7025[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7026[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]7027[/ATTACH]

It is assumed that if anyone sees anything wrong with these setups that those errors will be pointed out to the readership.

Notice that in this setup (bottom right image) with the V120 miter gauge that interence between the cutter and the miter fence is possible. Use of the V120 is most likely possible but only with careful setup.

Look at all the red. There is a message there!!

[tryinhard]

You pictures show exactly what I have been seeing. I am hoping someone can explain how they got the pictures in PTWFE. I am also glad your third pic uses your V120 to show that the problem will not go away with the new miter gauge.

[JPG]

Is still not resolved. It appears to me that interference between a miter gauge and the "quill mounted featherboard" is inevitable.

[ATTACH]7024[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]7025[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]7026[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]7027[/ATTACH]

It is assumed that if anyone sees anything wrong with these setups that those errors will be pointed out to the readership.

Notice that in this setup (bottom right image) with the V120 miter gauge that interence between the cutter and the miter fence is possible. Use of the V120 is most likely possible but only with careful setup.

The thing I see different between the PTWFE pix 9-25 and Dusty's setup is the position on the fence on the table. The edge of the fence is to the left of the center line of the table insert. Dusty's setup is to the right of the insert center line. The ptwfe setup provides more room for the vertical featherboard. I assume shallow cuts are taken with the workpiece NOT against the shaper fence. I assume the shaper fence is adjusted for the final finish cut. I believe this would require the quill to be positioned towards the rear of the hole in the table insert(towards the way tubes) and not centered over the hole. Actually it is the table that is positioned further out from the way tubes.

[ATTACH]7033[/ATTACH]

[ldh]

I don't see the use of the featherboard when you have the hold down on the miter gauge. I would be a lot more concerned about end grain tear-out. I use the quill mounted featherboard for long grain shaping only.
ldh

[JPG]

I don't see the use of the featherboard when you have the hold down on the miter gauge. I would be a lot more concerned about end grain tear-out. I use the quill mounted featherboard for long grain shaping only.
ldh

Now that makes good sense!!!!!

[dusty]

The position of the fence, in these photos, is arbitrary. I did not mount the cutters. But you can see from the photos that the fence can be moved toward the ways about and inch (picture lower right) and yes the table can be moved away from the ways too. But this movement is limited by the cutters being used and the desired depth of cut. There are undeniable limitations that restrict the use of the "quill mounted featherboard".

It appears to me that there are times when the featherboard must be set aside. Don't set aside SAFETY. Find another way to avoid potential injury. Be careful.

Regressing now to the original question.

quote: Hey there. Anyone have any ideas what me and my son are doing wrong when it comes to successfully using our SS shaper to use the rail and stile cutters? Our problem is that when we shape the end grain the result is always out of square. We've worked and worked again to try to get the miter guage square to the shaper fence and all of that square to the table, but we keep ending up with scrap wood.

In all cases, the cutter is cutting deeper at the beginning edge of the work piece than at the end. It's like the work piece is gradually moving away from the fence. quote:


I believe you are doing nothing wrong. You need to do something additional to prevent the unwanted movement of the work piece. I would find a way to clamp the work piece to the miter gauge and make these end grain cuts in small increments.

Your very last statement seems revealing to me. Is the work piece being pushed away from the fence? If it is, you should be able to tell by visual inspection at the end of the cut. It would be the natural tendency for the cutter head to do that if the work piece is movable in that direction.


BTW Make sure the work pieces are square to start with.:)

[dusty]

I've been thinking about this situation and have decided that I do not know how to set up the shapers (because I have not done that since I had my accident). So, I went to the shop first thing this morning to do a more realistic setup.

After installing the cutters, adjusting the table so that the cutters sit safely in the insert and adjusting the fence for proper depth of cut (I setup for maximum cut depth), I have decided that the "quill mounted featherboard" CANNOT be used in conjunction with the miter fence for reasons already shown.

Image deleted....SAFETY in Question