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Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 4:48 pm
by JPG
jsburger wrote:JPG wrote:ERLover wrote:just venting, so dont take it personally, this subject has been beaten to death and then beaten to life again.
I tend to agree, but at least we succeeded it getting Dusty to 'see the light'(realize it is not a baby bumper, but a spacer)(finally!!!).
I think we also revealed Hans' wisdom in not making it out of a rubber tube.
And Hans' was adjustable. Go figure!
Here is one more variable I just thought of that nobody has mentioned. The vertical plane of the head stock casting that the quill stops against when fully retracted and the vertical plane of the head stock casting down at the way tube that the spacer hits against. Are those vertical planes the same distance apart on every machine. If no the same length spacer will give different results.
I was referring to Hans' involvement with the Mark 5 stop ring, not the '10' rod.
Assuming the dies are reasonably identical, the headstocks are likely also.
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:26 pm
by jsburger
JPG wrote:jsburger wrote:JPG wrote:
I tend to agree, but at least we succeeded it getting Dusty to 'see the light'(realize it is not a baby bumper, but a spacer)(finally!!!).
I think we also revealed Hans' wisdom in not making it out of a rubber tube.
And Hans' was adjustable. Go figure!
Here is one more variable I just thought of that nobody has mentioned. The vertical plane of the head stock casting that the quill stops against when fully retracted and the vertical plane of the head stock casting down at the way tube that the spacer hits against. Are those vertical planes the same distance apart on every machine. If no the same length spacer will give different results.
I was referring to Hans' involvement with the Mark 5 stop ring, not the '10' rod.
Assuming the dies are reasonably identical, the headstocks are likely also.
But you said Hans' wisdom in
not making it out of a rubber tube.
As far as the head stock, I have no idea how accurate the castings are. However, the face of the casting is machined where the quill stops. The surface where the bumper hits is raw casting. What is the reference surface for the machined surface where the quill stops?
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:41 pm
by JPG
The Mark 5 (think Greenie/Goldie) have a hard plastic ring.
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:49 pm
by everettdavis
jsburger wrote:JPG wrote:ERLover wrote:just venting, so dont take it personally, this subject has been beaten to death and then beaten to life again.
I tend to agree, but at least we succeeded it getting Dusty to 'see the light'(realize it is not a baby bumper, but a spacer)(finally!!!).
I think we also revealed Hans' wisdom in not making it out of a rubber tube.
And Hans' was adjustable. Go figure!
Here is one more variable I just thought of that nobody has mentioned. The vertical plane of the head stock casting that the quill stops against when fully retracted and the vertical plane of the head stock casting down at the way tube that the spacer hits against. Are those vertical planes the same distance apart on every machine. If no the same length spacer will give different results.
Considering the Quill, has there ever been any variances in the 501307 Quill Bumper Ring thickness? It would affect the quill stop position by the quill return spring. That would affect the stop location, and impact where the blade rests in the insert when the quill is at rest.
I have found them missing on some headstocks... I guess that's an oxymoron as I didn't find them, because they were missing...
Everett
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 5:53 pm
by jsburger
JPG wrote:The Mark 5 (think Greenie/Goldie) have a hard plastic ring.
OK, I did not know. However the 10 was still adjustable.
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:24 pm
by jsburger
everettdavis wrote:jsburger wrote:JPG wrote:
I tend to agree, but at least we succeeded it getting Dusty to 'see the light'(realize it is not a baby bumper, but a spacer)(finally!!!).
I think we also revealed Hans' wisdom in not making it out of a rubber tube.
And Hans' was adjustable. Go figure!
Here is one more variable I just thought of that nobody has mentioned. The vertical plane of the head stock casting that the quill stops against when fully retracted and the vertical plane of the head stock casting down at the way tube that the spacer hits against. Are those vertical planes the same distance apart on every machine. If no the same length spacer will give different results.
Considering the Quill, has there ever been any variances in the 501307 Quill Bumper Ring thickness? It would affect the quill stop position by the quill return spring. That would affect the stop location, and impact where the blade rests in the insert when the quill is at rest.
I have found them missing on some headstocks... I guess that's an oxymoron as I didn't find them, because they were missing...
Everett
I was going to mention that also but I didn't want to belabor the issue. There is another thing. The distance of the main table tubes to the left side of the carriage that the spacer bares against. Again, we have a machined surface (the tube holes) and a raw casting surface. What is the reference surface for machining the main table tubes?
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:31 pm
by dusty
I don't know what "the reference surface is" but there could be more than one.
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:52 pm
by reible
everettdavis wrote:
Considering the Quill, has there ever been any variances in the 501307 Quill Bumper Ring thickness? It would affect the quill stop position by the quill return spring. That would affect the stop location, and impact where the blade rests in the insert when the quill is at rest.
I have found them missing on some headstocks... I guess that's an oxymoron as I didn't find them, because they were missing...
Everett
Yes to the question about thickness of the quill bumper ring changing. If I can find my information I know one of the changes I made to my 1976 machine was a change to that part. If I had to guess I think it got thicker, went from metal to rubber(?).
Ed
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 6:57 pm
by JPG
Metal?
Rather than continue to split hairs, realize that the purpose is to get it to space the headstock/carriage so the blade will be under the blade slot.
Absolute precise centering was/is not the objective.
That target slot is NOT a ZCI.
Re: Carriage Stop Ring 516667, the intended function??
Posted: Tue May 24, 2016 7:36 pm
by jsburger
JPG wrote:Metal?
Rather than continue to split hairs, realize that the purpose is to get it to space the headstock/carriage so the blade will be under the blade slot.
Absolute precise centering was/is not the objective.
That target slot is NOT a ZCI.
I totally agree and I believe I said that before in another thread.