Using 7 1/4" Table Saw Blade - appropriate?

[moose]

Rick Davis during the TA days had no hesitiation in recommending smaller blades........

[navycop]

So is the jury saying "Use it if have the right arbor and
ALL Safety precautions are observered" Or is the jury still out on this one? I am just curious. I have a 7 1/4" blade from an old circular saw that I burned up.

JPG40504 SEE DA BLUE.

[reible]

WELL! You nailed down TWO questions!!!!

[ATTACH]10187[/ATTACH]

Make that THREE! Some 500's had the extra slot!!

P.S. Reible What vintage is the manual you posted above which contradicts this?

Sorry I missed this as I have been on to other things....

First, when I got my new shopsmith in 1976 it came with an owners manual dated 06/76. Post 26 information is identical to my manual. The post when read has to come from the prospective of what was then standard, that being a 10" blade. So the part that talks about smaller blades is in reference to anything less then 10". Both 8" and 9" blades are smaller then 10" and both have been used on previous versions of the shopsmith. So far I see no problem with blades down to 8" but have yet to see any reference to blades smaller then that for use on the shopsmith in cut through operations.

What should be quite clear from my other posts and from post 28 that the lower limit is an 8" blade. Now I don't really care if someone doesn't want to follow the safety rules but I think this forum speaks for shopsmith and I'm speaking on their behalf saying that if you value any of their safety rules then you should also follow this one, at least in your posts. I would hate to see our favorite company die in a law suit cause some plaintive reference this thread and the fact that Shopsmith owns all the posts here (reference your sign-in when you started on this board).... And, because I want everyone here to be safe in all that they do.

The original postings I pictured are out of the 11/04 instruction manual under Safety (section A-1). So far as I know this is the most up to date manual produced by shopsmith.

Now be safe, all of you,

Ed

[JPG]

JPG40504 SEE DA BLUE.

Which part of the posts quoting manuals which were in direct contradiction of each other did you miss?

My point/position is that 'proper safety precautions' seem to be different depending upon when those procedures were published.

I do not see any difference between 'then' and 'now' as far as exposure to injury is concerned(JMHO).

Ed makes a good point re 8" being the smallest ss 'sold' saw blade. It however overlooks the 6" dado!

Regardless of any 'safety procedures' what prevents injury is good old knowledge of what ya be doing and properly functioning skull contents.

[reible]

Which part of the posts quoting manuals which were in direct contradiction of each other did you miss?

I see no conflicts. That is my point, using smaller blades means blades less then 10" and includes both 9" and 8". If you think 6" is OK then show me where it says that... the point is if you want to do a through cut and that is the only kind one can do with the with the blade guard in place then the minimum blade size is 8". That is what it says.

My point/position is that 'proper safety precautions' seem to be different depending upon when those procedures were published.

I again don't see any issue here but even if there were then we fall back to the premise of old is old and new is new and follow the new? One might saw the case of old versus new guideline and safety information do not the new all ways trump the old unless stated other wise?

I do not see any difference between 'then' and 'now' as far as exposure to injury is concerned(JMHO).

Nor do I, however some things that were shown like the shopsmith panel saw for the old ER's may have to be excluded as far to much exposure to injury goes. You may well see other things in the older book or manuals that are now thought to be dangerous, I think in most cases they were dangerous back then but we didn't know it yet. I'd go with the safe/not safe that is presented now. For the most part I don't think anyone is trying to make you not do things because of some vast conspiracy to take your fun away, I think they are trying to make it safer for you.

Ed makes a good point re 8" being the smallest ss 'sold' saw blade. It however overlooks the 6" dado!

It was not over looked and if you read my last post you will see I covered that with the through cut premise which is what I hope we are still talking about. If we have switched subjects I missed it....

Regardless of any 'safety procedures' what prevents injury is good old knowledge of what ya be doing and properly functioning skull contents.

And if we all had that no one would get hurt except for those pesky accidents which seem to happen when safety rules are not at the front of or thinking. When I plan a project I also plan out how I'm going to do it safely, that includes which tools to use and how to use them.

When I was growing up I got to use table saws, jointers and other power tools at an early age. At the time no one had guards on there saws or jointers.

A miter gauge was optional and most time not even used. Free hand was good enough. We had no push sticks and you learned to stay out of the way of kickbacks as they happen often.

The table saw blade was at full height and only if you needed it lower for a particular cut did you put it lower but then right after you put it right back up as high as it would go.

You didn't unplug machines to change blades or to work on them unless the problem was with the electrical. You sharpened your own blades and often finished projects with very dull blades cause you didn't have another to put on... sometimes you did change for one you thought might just be a little better until you tried it....

Hey I could go on and on about this stuff, and it wasn't just at home, that is how all the people I knew did there woodworking. No training, no manuals, not much common sense but there it was. Kind of like watching third world street vendors producing things on utube.... Most people had some what of a shop as we were to poor to have others do it for us. I'd have to say at least half of the town folks fancied themselves a woodworker or carpenter.

It was also true that not many people got hurt, just the occasional loss of a finger or perhaps an extra finger due to having cut one to make 2. Of course the close calls always made for good tales along with the 80 pound beaver that got away trap and all or the fish as long as the boat that come along side but never go for the bait. Yes there was such a time but that is in my far past and while it was fun as a kid I'd never want to go back to those ways of woodworking.

To my good fortune I happen to meet a safe woodworker who got my act together. I was also lucky to find a shop instructor at high school who knew his woodworking and found people of like minds to teach a bit more to.

The point here is that what is safe in someones mind may be one thing but just look at the list I posted earlier and think of all thing things you know were really bad practices... when I was a child I thought like a child and acted like a child. I'm not a child anymore and I'd like to think I'm a safe woodworker now, but I still may have a way to go because you don't always see your own failings so it is always a work in progress and the progress is towards being even more safe. If you are not working towards this then all I can say is I hope you are lucky... you will need it.

Ed

[JPG]

Sadly you are quite correct.

'Safe procedures' will help protect the unwary/careless(if followed).

Unfortunately some do not 'learn' until injured, and then it is too late.

The current base philosophy is to 'dumb down' so the novice does not experience the previous statement.

Somewhere we have lost the individual responsibility to be certain of our own knowledge competence prior to performing a potentially hazardous task, and depend (too much IMHO) on 'warnings' from entities far removed from the present.

The result is counter-productive to the point of the 'warnings' being so overdone and frequently non-applicable that they are ignored by the very individuals that need to heed it.

You are indeed fortunate to have been tutored in the right direction to prevent mishaps.

I just happen to be of the OPINION that we are all responsible for all our actions, and if we are harmed due to our ignorance of hazards, it is our fault for being ignorant, not someone/thing else for not 'educating' me.

Now a disclaimer! What is correct/acceptable for myself is not necessarily a good thing for others. I am three generations removed from the current mind set.

Those of a later era are burdened with the 'it is somebody elses responsibility/fault' to/that prevent/causes personal injury.

SO! Any one reading MY previous post must not take it as a recommendation for their own actions.

One thing is for sure, Ed's will expose one to less risk and can therefore be considered to be less 'childish', but I really fail to see how being more responsible for your actions is childish.

One last word! Accidents are caused and therefore do not just happen. They are usually caused by some action or lack thereof by someone directly involved. Those more careless need more 'precautions'. Those less careless are more cautious to begin with.

[robinson46176]

Many of us "old school" guys are very good at doing a lot of very dangerous things very carefully...
I got very little safety knowledge from woodshop instructors. I had two in high school and one in college. None were all that good. I learned far more about woodworking safety from books and TV woodworking shows by far than I ever got at school.
I have also always been very good at learning from the mistakes of others like the old local woodworker that showed me the scars from sticking his fingers into the cutter head of his jointer...
My first car was a 1952 Plymouth that I bought from the widow of the guy that was killed under it. He had driven it up on the edge of his carport floor across a shallow depression and removed the drive shaft to replace a universal joint in it. Many of you old guys will recall that on those old Chrysler products the parking brake was mounted on the rear of the transmission. He did not chock the wheels and when he removed the drive shaft it rolled off of the concrete edge and crushed him under the car. Even today I always think of him when I get under a vehicle... I am a fanatic about safety when lifting vehicles (and farm machinery). It was reinforced some years ago when the son of a friend who knew better took a short-cut and didn't use a jack-stand under his car. It fell and badly cracked his gourd... He was extremely lucky and survived.
I want to cover this more later but I want to stress here that there is a HUGE difference between "respecting" machinery and working carefully even with risk present and this nonsense becoming so common these days of so many people being scared $#!#less of absolutely "everything"...

[robinson46176]

Many of us "old school" guys are very good at doing a lot of very dangerous things very carefully...
I got very little safety knowledge from woodshop instructors. I had two in high school and one in college. None were all that good. I learned far more about woodworking safety from books and TV woodworking shows by far than I ever got at school.
I have also always been very good at learning from the mistakes of others like the old local woodworker that showed me the scars from sticking his fingers into the cutter head of his jointer...
My first car was a 1952 Plymouth that I bought from the widow of the guy that was killed under it. He had driven it up on the edge of his carport floor across a shallow depression and removed the drive shaft to replace a universal joint in it. Many of you old guys will recall that on those old Chrysler products the parking brake was mounted on the rear of the transmission. He did not chock the wheels and when he removed the drive shaft it rolled off of the concrete edge and crushed him under the car. Even today I always think of him when I get under a vehicle... I am a fanatic about safety when lifting vehicles (and farm machinery). It was reinforced some years ago when the son of a friend who knew better took a short-cut and didn't use a jack-stand under his car. It fell and badly cracked his gourd... He was extremely lucky and survived.
I want to cover this more later but I want to stress here that there is a HUGE difference between "respecting" machinery and working carefully even with risk present and this nonsense becoming so common these days of so many people being scared $#!#less of absolutely "everything"...

[shipwright]

Couldn't agree more JPEG, and Francis, it was worth saying twice !

Paul M

[robinson46176]

Couldn't agree more JPEG, and Francis, it was worth saying twice !

Paul M

I am surprised that it was there even once. All I was getting was messages that the connection was timing out... I could go anywhere but back to the SS forum so I went out to water the client horses and was going to try to post it later.
I blame the elves...