ObamaCare and Healthcare.gov

[frank81]

But calling them names solves nothing. Deriding educational backgrounds and previous accomplishments solves nothing. In my opinion the whole name calling thing is just as childish as the behavior of some of currently elected officials. I have no problem with describing the behavior for what it is, but can we please stop calling the individuals names and show some respect?

I have a long running gripe with society over the past few admins that I would like to add to your very good point. Both sides of government have worked so poorly and put out such flawed policies that to skip intelligent criticism of the actual issues and resort to name calling on the playground is just plain lazy. Plus, while you're making fun of someone's vocabulary, hair cut, wife, etc. the stuff that matters is getting a free pass. But its really just turned into Coke vs. Pepsi so maybe none of it matters.

[beeg]

Able bodied men under the age of 60 would have to do work like the old CCC
Civilian Conservation Corp.

WHAT about the women? Also the handicapped?

[keakap]

...(Oh wait, I'm not supposed to ask myself a question in a post )

-----------[no one said you're not supposed to. The point is that it is silly. I don't get it. What's the point- afraid of simply stating an idea? Does this put the onus (responsibility of ownership) on some mythical mystical questioner? Some people instead simply add "imho" (in my humble opinion) if they're not afraid to express one.]--------------

I only recall one other time the government shut down.

--------then I suspect you would be highly entertained by reading about the other 16 times being discussed recently. What was it-- 4, or 5- times during Reagan's administration, fe?-----------

How can any of them say they are willing to shutdown the government over spending when they voted for the TARP bill?! Over a trillion and counting to hand a blank check to their owners before Obama ever took office. Keep in mind that Boehner, Cantor, Ryan, McConnell, Graham... 91 Republicans in the house and 31 in the Senate voted for it...where was the spending outrage then?
---------It was there. I remember it quite vividly, perhaps because I was a participant. But TARP is an interesting item today. I'll hafta look it up and see how much it MADE for the gummint in interest. A substantial amount. (Iow, it worked, unlike Porkulus, otherwise known now as Grand Theft Automaker, a completely illegal and unconstitutional crime.)-----------

...Seems every politician is a hypocrite if you wait long enough
-----------I will definitely vote for that!---------

A very enlightening article By Sowell has recently been presented to the forum. He provides the truth of the matter and follows up with sources within which can be readily found justification for his opinions. I'm no expert but I tend to agree with him, for good reasons, among them: 1. I've checked his sources; 2. I have not found ANY convincing argument that refutes his conclusions; 3. they make sense (this one will have the Left scratching da haids!).

;-)

[keakap]

It's very unusual for Congress to forbid spending money to implement an existing law. Mostly they forbid spending money on things the president wants to do, but isn't required to do (e.g. they used this power to keep the president from transferring Guantanamo prisoners to the US).

Aside from unusual, it's simply dumb. As we found out on the 1st, lack of funding didn't stop the health exchanges from opening. The health care freight train simply can't stop on a dime like that. Temporarily interrupting the funding only ends up raising the costs of what's going to be implement, anyway. If they can muster the votes to overturn Obamacare, there's probably a smart way of dismantling it. But what the House tried to do was simply poorly planned.

Not raising the debt ceiling would be criminally irresponsible. Notwithstanding the sanguine predictions, it's still far from certain that we wouldn't default on debt. Though at the end of the year there may be enough money to theoretically balance the books, we have to remember that cash flows in and money has to go out at very different rates throughout the year. Just maybe the bureaucrats at the Treasury dept. are skillful enough and lucky enough to always have enough cash on-hand for whatever bills and bonds have to be paid that particular day. But that's making a helluva assumption. If not, we go into default. And if the markets even think default is possible, we're gonna have to pay higher interest rates, which increases the deficit.

Wow! Somebody really needs an education!

:-{

[keakap]

And who started this rumor that Obama is trying to make the government closure more painful than is necessary? Parks and monuments ALWAYS close during a shutdown. but NOT to Pelosi and some illegal immigrants!

And as countervailing evidence, the Administration has taken a very liberal interpretation of the Pay Our Military Act...
by CUTTING OFF DEATH BENEFITS TO FAMILIES OF SLAIN SOLDIERS in order to send 90% of the Defense dept. (including me) back to work.

Wholly Moly!

[keakap]

...My guess all Foreign Aid goes on as normal.

... I don't understand why we send money out of this country

So I'm thinking the reason we send money out is that we STILL send money out. In other words, there may well have been what appeared to be good, humane perhaps, reasons for instituting the "Foreign Aid" in the first place.
And it hits me that the continuing- that is to say NEVERending- payouts are exactly what is wrong with our Progressive gumint today, particularly in light of the current flap over raising the debt limit, one of the stupidest schemes ever hatched. I mean c'mon-- you reach you limit on your MasterCard so you demand that the bank RAISE your limit? How utterly moronic!

At least in today's openly anti_America Regime, the monies going out to all the countries that hate us can be simply written off as "one dictator to another"...

[joshh]

Very well stated Ed. I personally think anyone who gets welfare should be required to get the depo shot. No more babies for at least 3 months. We currently have some families where NOBODY in 5 generations has ever worked and yet survive comfortably on our dime. It is not 47% of Americans though (not saying you said it was).

I agree with the drug test also but testing costs millions more than it saves. Oklahoma just tried this and only 3% failed...they aren't hard to cheat/pass...

The entire welfare program needs to be scrapped and redone. There is no reason people on welfare and unemployment can't do SOMETHING for their money....our infrastructure is in sad shape.


I talked to Justin (my attorney friend) again and he stands by what he claimed about the legality of defunding/default. I think he is wrong about defunding being illegal after reading Heath's replies. I do still believe though that defaulting would directly violate the constitution. How great would that be if we could toss em all out at once for defaulting and start with fresh elections? Only revolution would accomplish this...they won't go willingly...

I don't remember the shutdowns during Reagan (I was a child at the time).

Oh, Heath the link you quoted about the shutdown was a satire piece...but probably isn't far from the "truth". Sad that "news" stations repeated the park ranger quote. I'm going to try to find the original satire article.

-----------[no one said you're not supposed to. The point is that it is silly. I don't get it. What's the point- afraid of simply stating an idea? Does this put the onus (responsibility of ownership) on some mythical mystical questioner? Some people instead simply add "imho" (in my humble opinion) if they're not afraid to express one.]--------------

So THAT's your gripe with it! I can't speak for other's but when I do it, it's simply a writing style. I've definitely never been accused of holding my opinion

[heathicus]

I do still believe though that defaulting would directly violate the constitution.

Yes, defaulting would violate the constitution. My assertion is that there is no chance of defaulting - unless it is done intentionally as a political maneuver.

Oh, Heath the link you quoted about the shutdown was a satire piece...but probably isn't far from the "truth".

Which link was that? I threw several links out there. If I'm wrong about something, I'd like to know.

[keakap]

...
Can we please refrain from derisive and divisive name calling?
As a vet, I just can't stand it any longer. Whether you like the elected officials of the president and congress or not please respect the office and the institutions they represent.
...
Mutual respect is what is lacking right now and a huge contributing factor to this whole shameful debacle. Let's not add to it....

I will try to refrain. One "although" though, is that respect is something earned. And though I have immense respect for the office of the president, the president does not, and has earned zero respect from me. He truly is a scumbag but I will try to remember not to call a spade a spade again.

And, I realize I can be somewhat, uh, abrasive at times, so I'd like to offer a wee peace offering, in the form of a sincere recommendation to a source that can explain all of the issues we've discussed, correct any disallusions and 'defund' all misrepresentations. It is Hillsdale College, and it offers a number of non-credit courses on-line, to anyone and for free if one desires.
In particular there is an on-going course on Economics. I can't think of a good excuse for anyone discussing same today not to 'attend'. I am, because I am ignorant for one thing, and for another I hate to rely on my ADA friend or my favorite bartender for enlightenment.

Enroll anytime. Past sessions are archived and always available.

Aloha.

[keakap]

"Able bodied men under the age of 60 ..."

WHAT about the women? Also the handicapped?

'the women?'
Well, let's put aside the freedom- and truth-killing Political Correct biness in general for a second, and I'll offer an opinion: women ARE special and different and deserve special considerations. I'll give them the option.

As I will to the handicapped, most of whom I suspect are and will be more than willing to do anything they physically can, but do, too, need a break.