Shopsmith Forums

I know Nick has recommended pre-treating before gluing up miter joints. It's the 50% dilution I question. Also 3 minutes doesn't seem long enough. More like 15 minutes to an hour.

Anyway, I wondered about the overkill for this project. It is the pressure from the screws that will force glue into the end grain of the 2X. It just doesn't appear to me that diluted glue will help in this case, other than color the end grain. If you were to use an expanding, gap filling glue, like Gorilla, that might be a better choice. But it is messy!

Edit - Please, don't get me wrong. In critiquing, this is an attempt to be helpful. This seems your shelves could be a fairly simple project. I have run into similar situations in my own shop, where if I let myself over think, it could lead to many more steps and operations that really doesn't improve anything in a project. The old adage, to keep it simple really has application in woodworking. Epically in joinery. Veneers, inlays, scroll work and some finishing are another matter. Here is the time to do a lot of planning and steps.

Thanks Chuck. Being an engineer means I overthink everything anyways. Being an engineer in unfamiliar waters makes it even worse. I will say that I try to design things as well as possible even when it may not be needed, because it helps me get experience with some of these overdesign aspects (like pre-treating edge grains) for future projects when they do matter.

Today my dear wife helped me get all the shelving assemblies put together. I called my buddy and asked him to look up Nick's end-grain gluing suggestion. The suggestion is to put a thin coat of wood glue (says nothing about dilution) on the end grain and let it sit for 30 minutes, then apply glue as usual and glue up the joint.

First I applied a thin coat of glue to the ends of the 2x4s that go in the dados, and to the sides of the dados themselves (kinda difficult to get a fingertip along there without making a mess!). I used a latex glove to avoid getting my fingertips totally glued up.

There are two shelving heights, 16" and 19" (need different clearances at the front and back of the garage doors). Here's the pile of lumber for the "shorty" shelves:

[ATTACH]1824[/ATTACH]

The ends and the dadoes all have slightly different clearances. I dry-fit all of the assemblies together to match up the ends/dadoes as best I could, then sanded the rest only as much as needed to fixed. Because of this, I wanted to keep the end/dado relationship intact. In the pile above, the 2x4 ends by each dado go together.

Gluing and screwing went pretty well. I pulled some of the screws a little deeper than I would have liked, but overall everything went well. First my wife spread glue in each dado and a bit more on the 2x4 ends. Next, I assembled the wet ends together. I used my triangle square (does it have a proper name) to ensure that it was square, and I put the first screw in. I used 2.5" deck screws instead of drywall screws (which I usually use but I understand makes real woodworkers bristle with annoyance). From there, I tapped the 2x4 ends to be centered in each joint and kept installing all the screws until the assembly was done. Check for square at the end (they were all good), put aside, lather rinse repeat!

Once all the assembled were glued and screwed, I pulled the first one we assembled from the pile and hammered in two of the tie straps:

[ATTACH]1825[/ATTACH]

However, I really had to hammer those suckers in and it had only been about 30 minutes since the joint started to set. I decided it was better to let the frames cure completely overnight and hammer the straps on tomorrow, rather than hammering across the joint while it was trying to set.

Here's the pile of taller frames, with a shorty frame in the front:

[ATTACH]1826[/ATTACH]

The two frames are 28.25" apart, hung from the ceiling with three lag bolts each. The slats, which were cut to just under 32" allowing exactly three slats per 8' board, then span the two lower supports.

Going back to the topic of overkill, these shelves are meant for bulk storage. I won't be putting engine blocks or anything on them, although I do want to make them as strong as reasonably possible. As mentioned before, I think I would cut the dadoes shallower if I were to do it all over again.

- Chris

chrispitude wrote:... I used my triangle square (does it have a proper name) to ensure that it was square, ...

Hi Chris,
I am knot sure as to which triangle square you are referring to, but in the construction business, the common triangle square is referred to as a "speed square". And, in fact, that name is stamped into them, regardless of brand.

Cris; Properly glued, you will not have lost any strength as a direct result of the deep dados. Just make sure that all three surfaces of the dado and the mating vertical member are well glued.

Remember, however, it doesn't have to be an engine block to be mighty heavy.

Hi Tim,

It is indeed a speed square, thanks!

Hi dusty,

You know, it's funny... I started hammering the tie straps in yesterday. Halfway in, I ran out of straps. Wondering I would have bought precisely half the straps I needed, I realized that I had previously decided to only place straps on the insides of the supports. The reason for this is that since the two supports are connected by all the slats, they will not fail in such a way where they want to rotate out of the joint. Instead, they would try to pull straight out (down) as all the slats constrain their movement. However, I forgot about this "optimization" and just started banging away on both sides everywhere where there was a joint.

Well, I had to run back to Home Depot and buy another 64 ties for $30. I now have $60 worth of tie straps in this project, which probably don't contribute anywhere near the strength that the $5 in wood glue did...

Overengineering indeed!

- Chris

Hi all,

The next step is to apply some sort of durable coating to the shelving slats (the whole thing, not just the top). I was considering going with Minwax Polycrylic but this is just a guess on my part. What would be a good durable finish for the actual shelving surface of a garage shelving unit?

I have a bunch of disposable foam brushes from a previous project, so it would be good to use a coating which would allow me to use them for application.

- Chris

chrispitude wrote:Hi Tim,

It is indeed a speed square, thanks!

Hi dusty,

You know, it's funny... I started hammering the tie straps in yesterday. Halfway in, I ran out of straps. Wondering I would have bought precisely half the straps I needed, I realized that I had previously decided to only place straps on the insides of the supports. The reason for this is that since the two supports are connected by all the slats, they will not fail in such a way where they want to rotate out of the joint. Instead, they would try to pull straight out (down) as all the slats constrain their movement. However, I forgot about this "optimization" and just started banging away on both sides everywhere where there was a joint.

Well, I had to run back to Home Depot and buy another 64 ties for $30. I now have $60 worth of tie straps in this project, which probably don't contribute anywhere near the strength that the $5 in wood glue did...

Overengineering indeed!

- Chris

Hi Chris,
If, in the future, you do another project that might require straps, please consider plumbers tape. It is very strong, comes in a roll so easy to cut to any length, and is much cheaper! It also comes with holes in it for easy use of nails or screws.

Thanks Tim! I had considered the strapping but I was being a bit vain in that I thought the tie plates looked nicer. I just wanted my first major project to look as nice as possible. The strapping would have definitely been more cost-effective.

Regarding the finish question, I was at the store today and noticed multiple polyurethane finish types (satin, semi-gloss, gloss). Is one of these a better choice for garage shelving? I was leaning towards satin just so it wasn't shiny, but maybe gloss or semi-gloss would wipe down better if something leaked.

- Chris

If you are going the polyurethane route, I recommend the water based type. It is easier to apply, faster drying and has MUCH LESS smell (fumes). I used water based on my workbench and router table. It has held up well in those applications. There is no clean-up difference between the various glosses. The real question is - how shiny do you want it to be? BTW I prefer the Varathane brand.

chrispitude wrote:Thanks Tim! I had considered the strapping but I was being a bit vain in that I thought the tie plates looked nicer. I just wanted my first major project to look as nice as possible. The strapping would have definitely been more cost-effective.

Regarding the finish question, I was at the store today and noticed multiple polyurethane finish types (satin, semi-gloss, gloss). Is one of these a better choice for garage shelving? I was leaning towards satin just so it wasn't shiny, but maybe gloss or semi-gloss would wipe down better if something leaked.

- Chris

I need all the help I can get: White reflects light best so I wood paint them white. Regardless of what you do, if you are concerned with cleanup, I wood recommend the glossy variety of what ever product you choose. The glossier the easier to wipe off.