SS Incra TS/LS

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:04 pm

Reading an old article in ShopNotes on a Shooting Board. Talk of a "cat's whisker" and how that can be the difference between a perfect-fitting miter and an "almost fits". And how it's almost impossible to achieve this shaving on a table saw or compound miter saw. Enter the hand plane and Shooting Board.

Hm. Enter the daydream of a 'cat's whisker'- or less- being removed on the SS. Predictably. ANd guess what- it's not a daydream.
And then I looked here to see if anyone else had experienced this, and (maybe my search criteria is bad, but) I didn't find it. So I am curious.
Has anyone else tried the INCRA/ShopSmith TS/LS table saw fence system? And if so, whaddaya think of it?

We've talked a lot about alignments and tolerances and how close (or not) do you have to cut and all that stuff. But I gotta tellya, I do get a kick out of measuring a trim cut of 1 thousandth. Repeatable.

Curious.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:20 pm

I don't understand the Shopnotes suggestion that you need a shooting board to make a perfect miter.

If you want perfect miters, you need to use a fence on your table saw's miter gauge along with a stop block for cutting the stock to length. That way, you saw all of the parts to an identical size and there is no need for additional fiddling with a shooting board. The stop block works equally well with a compound miter saw.

keakap · Post by **keakap** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:21 am

pennview wrote:I don't understand the Shopnotes suggestion that you need a shooting board to make a perfect miter. ....

I think that was what induced me to reading the article in the first place. I don't know how many times I've looked at a shooting board (or a story about one) and thought "how neat, I should make one", only to realize later that I wouldn't use it.

But I guess it's a throwback to when I had no real tools (anything over $7.95 plus tax) yet yearned for the day when I could cut a straight line, or a miter (yeah, right, says I, and Kennedy's talking about the moon...)..

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:07 pm

There is two ways to achieve perfection. Develop the skills needed to achieve perfection or use technology to overcome any shortfallings you may have.

I have watched craftsmen make miter joints using a hand saw, plane and 45 angle that a cat's wisker would not be able to fit in the joint. I have also seen a machine that can make a similar joint.

The question is what do you want? Miter joint that you made that will work and look good or or a joint that using your learned and honed craftsmanship and handtools produced a joint of perfection or do you want a joint that using craftsmanship and precision machines you were able to mill to perfection?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:48 pm

With a sanding disc, one can remove half a cats whisker(or less).

Angle and length.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:39 pm

The problem is taking a cat's whisker off here and half a cat's whisker there, you end up half a cat's whisker off. If you cut them to the right length to start, there's no need to taking whiskers off later. Besides, shooting boards require very little talent. In any event, this is the Shopsmith forum not the Galoots Blog.

algale · Post by **algale** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm

I think the old fashioned hand tools versus modern machinery argument is largely overblown. In their day, the old fashioned hand tools were the most modern and up to date machinery available -- cutting edge technology if you will.

Do you think the craftsman of the 18th century felt guilty about using tools that the craftsman of the prior centuries didn't have?

Using a Shopsmith or other machinery does not take any less skill than using more traditional hand tools. You need to spend time on alignment and tuning of machinery to get accurate results and to keep getting accurate results. Moreover, even with a "perfectly" aligned machine, there's no guarantee on getting perfect results if you don't apply some skill. I don't know about others but I find that even with well aligned tables, sharp blades, a well aligned miter gauge and a well aligned rip fence, it is still quite possible not to get perfect 90 or 45 degree cuts and to end up with pieces that aren't always exactly the same length even when using jigs and stops.

In sum, technique and skill are still relevant whether one is using a hand saw and hand plane or a table saw and a motorized jointer. Once machinery is properly set up, if you apply good technique, the machinery will usually do the job faster. When you apply bad technique you just mess up your board quicker.

Al

terrydowning · Post by **terrydowning** » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:27 pm

Well said Al.

I would like to add (speaking as an old hand tool user as well as a machine user) Retaining the skills of hand tools and employing them along with machines does NOT reduce any ability or skills. Measuring is measuring. layout is layout, etc.

By being able to use either hand tools or machines you have more flexibility to pick the best tool for the job. Of course, this gives you more ways to screw up as well....

nuhobby · Post by **nuhobby** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:19 am

JPG40504 wrote:With a sanding disc, one can remove half a cats whisker(or less).

Angle and length.

+1 on this method.

On the last set of gift-boxes I made, the corner miters were fairly tall wood pieces so I just cut them rough on the bandsaw (boards 'stood up' for the cuts). Then I tilted the MarkV table to precisely 45 degrees and laid the boards down to trim them with the sanding-disk. I was able to "take my sweet time" on the trimming, and the joints came out great.

lightnin · Post by **lightnin** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:04 pm

There's a lot of ways to skin that whiskerd cat.
I love using old tools especially ones with one of my grandfathers or fathers initials on it.
Many times, usually on smaller projects, I will go with the old traditional tools for the bit of extra pleasure I get.
Honestly I have little training on power tools well... woodworking power tools that is my Dad was a machinist.
Almost all my power woodworking tool instruction came from TV shows and lately the internet.
Well I guess my point is woodworking is/should be that peaceful little happy place it takes you.
What ever you enjoy and makes you feel good about your work is the way to go. With me it's a mixture.
I'll choose the Stanley 45 over the router most of the time but I rarely choose a hand saw.
I do want to learn all kinds of skills with all kinds of tools.