AGAIN, I Need Advice

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:46 am

I have again gotten myself into a jam and need advice.

I have accepted a challenge and don't know how to proceed. I was asked if I could repair a broken card file index box that was my grandmothers. It was handed down to a daughter who still utilizes it. It contains old family recipes that were my grandmothers in the old country. Some are written in German.

It was dropped and a couple of the joints broke loose. When asked if I could glue it, I foolishly said "Sure, I can do that".

Now I have a couple questions.

Does all of the old glue need to be removed to get a good glue joint?

When putting it back together, should I do one corner at a time or all four sides simultaneously?

What kind of glue? I originally thought CA but I only planned to glue it and squeeze the joints tight. I have since dismantled the box.

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garys · Post by **garys** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:53 am

It will hold a lot better if you can remove glue, but unless you are some kind of magician, you aren't likely to get it all. I would just scrape it all down as good as I can and reglue. With a box like that, I glue all the box joints at one time so I can align it up square. For me, it seems easier to square all sides at one time rather than do them one at a time. By doing them all at once, I can "persuade" them with a mallet if necessary to get them fully together and then square them up. Doing them one at a time seems like there would be risk of cracking an already glued joint while assembling another one if it chose to not go together easily.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:58 am

I'd do the whole box at one time. It will help keeping things square.

If the box is 100 years old, it likely was assmebled with hide glue, so water and heat will remove it, but water will cause the fingers to swell and require some additional fitting. You could use some liquid hide glue to reassemble, but make sure it is still in date. Titebond has a date on their liquid hide glue. Alternatively, you might get away with simply scraping the joints as best you can and then use a slow set epoxy for final assembly. Make a dry fit of the sides to ensure everything will go together easily and make any adjustments necessary before applying the hide glue or epoxy.

CA dries too fast to be useful. Applying thin CA to the joints after assembly doesn't result in a very strong joint.

bffulgham · Post by **bffulgham** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:52 am

pennview wrote:I'd do the whole box at one time. It will help keeping things square.

If the box is 100 years old, it likely was assmebled with hide glue, so water and heat will remove it, but water will cause the fingers to swell and require some additional fitting. You could use some liquid hide glue to reassemble, but make sure it is still in date. Titebond has a date on their liquid hide glue. Alternatively, you might get away with simply scraping the joints as best you can and then use a slow set epoxy for final assembly. Make a dry fit of the sides to ensure everything will go together easily and make any adjustments necessary before applying the hide glue or epoxy.

CA dries too fast to be useful. Applying thin CA to the joints after assembly doesn't result in a very strong joint.

Ditto Art's suggestion. If you can get a piece of the old glue to chip off, get your fingers wet and rub the glue around a bit. If the glue gets tacky or starts to dissolve, it's probably hide glue. If it is hide glue, scrape as much as you can out of the joints and re-glue with hide glue (I REALLY like the TiteBond stuff). The new hide glue should make the old stuff tacky and combine with the new.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:23 am

I was unable to obtain residue to do this hide glue test with. There was evidence of a re-glue some time in the past but I don't know if it was the same glue. The re-glue was probably not the same glue (just guessing).

I have not used the new liquid hide glue so maybe it is time for a test.

I was able to scrape a lot of glue residue out of the joints. It scraped off like powder. Joints look pretty good.

Guess I am ready for that step from which there is no return.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:35 am

dusty wrote: It scraped off like powder. Joints look pretty good.

Guess I am ready for that step from which there is no return.

Sounds to me like hide glue was used originally. So I'd stick with the hide glue to re-glue it. Liquid hide glue gives ya a LONG open time to.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:59 am

Hi Dusty, If it's that old there's no probably about it. It would have been hot hide glue. No need to remove all old glue as the new glue will re constitute and stick to the old. Bring it out to my place and we'll do it with hot hide glue, like it should be.... like new. Do you still have my phone #? If not PM me.

Paul M

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:25 pm

shipwright wrote:Hi Dusty, If it's that old there's no probably about it. It would have been hot hide glue. No need to remove all old glue as the new glue will re constitute and stick to the old. Bring it out to my place and we'll do it with hot hide glue, like it should be.... like new. Do you still have my phone #? If not PM me.

Paul M

I've got your number and I appreciate the offer very much but...

I've already started the glue up using Titebond liquid hide glue from Wooodcraft.

Are you in Tucson to stay or are you remaining in the rotation mode between here and the ship yard.

shipwright · Post by **shipwright** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm here until late April. The LHG will do fine.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:49 pm

In my experience, after a successful dry fit of all sides, you will need to glue one corner at a time, but do all four corners before the glue sets. This is the only way to get it square.