Jointer manual / snipe advice

[thezman007]

Hey guys,

When I bought my SS a few months ago I went through it to clean/adjust it because it was needed. I installed new blades in the jointer and spent 2 glorious hours trying to set the damn blades with possibly the worst dial indicator and base ever made. In the end they are all within a thou or two. Good enough for me. Anyways, while testing it out I got a damn good finish... until the last 2 1/2" or so when it took out too much material. I finally realized what's happening. The two tables are not perfectly in line horizontally and the trailing edge on the infeed table is slightly taller than the leading edge on the outfeed table. I swear it looked good with a straightedge, but my straightedge was not long enough to cover all of both tables. Anyways, can anyone send me in the right direction of a manual, or tell me how to fix said problem. Thanks guys

Zach

[wa2crk]

Hi Zach
Welcome to the world of first time jointer tuner uppers.
I think that you will have to go back to square one for a fix. Before starting to set the knives you have to make sure that the tables are absolutely co-planer to each other
This is done by removing the knives and checking the tables. I like to use a good level because they are, or should be, straight and true. Bring the depth indicator to zero and check the alignment of the tables. Place the level on the tables and check to see if any light is passing under the level. If there is then adjust the infeed table so that the level lies flush along the length of the infeed and outfeed tables. Check the zero indicator and adjust if necessary. Also check the table alignment at three positions across the cutter head opening. They should all be the same. (no light) Then check the tables from corner to corner.
Start by installing one of the blades. The height adjustment screws should be at the bottom of their travel.
Make a calibration gauge by using a straight piece of stock (1 X 4 by 6" long will do) and place it on edge flat across the cutter head opening. Mark vertical lines 1/8" apart on the gauge. When you adjust the blade height you will rotate the cutter head in the normal direction and adjust the height until the blade just moves the gauge one division. Do this on the inboard and the outboard end of the knife. then repeat for the rest of the knives.
When you get close to the desired height you will be turning the height adjustment screw about 1/8 of a turn (or less) at a time.
Always make the final turns of the height screw by backing it out of the hole (CCW) to maintain contact with the blade.
If you turn the height screw CW it may lose contact with the blade and when the wedge lock screws are tightened the wedge lock can push the blade down and you will lose the adjustment.
One other point, The bottom of the cutter head slots and all of the components, (knives, screws and wedge locks ) have to be clean and free from any debris that may get in the way of proper contact.
Check the owner's manual if you have it. I have found that Shopsmith's method is the fastest way and the most accurate of setting the knife height. Also number the blades or you may make my mistake of setting more than three knives on your first attempt.
Let us know how you make out.

Bill V

[dusty]

I agree with every thing said here EXCEPT that the blades must be removed to check the tables for coplanar.

Simply rotate the cutter head so that no blade is near top dead center. With the cutter head so located, the coplanar relationship can be verified.

[rpd]

Hey guys, Anyways, can anyone send me in the right direction of a manual, or tell me how to fix said problem. Thanks guys
Zach

ShopSmith can sell you a printed copy of the Jointer Manual. http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... sindex.htm
There is a manual for the older model 4E jointer (made for the 10er) available online Magna 4" Jointer Owners Guide

Other members who have had a table alignment problem reported a great improvement after cleaning the mating surfaces where the rear table meets the main casting.

[wa2crk]

Dusty
You are correct but he is going to have to remove the blades to reset them. Besides the practice should be a good learning experience.
Bill V

[dusty]

I am confused, Bill. Maybe I am just not paying attention to the details. I'll just sit quietly and watch to see how this works out.

[rcplaneguy]

Are you keeping pressure on just the wood on the out feed table during the last few inches? If not you will get "snipe".

[JPG]

Hey guys,

When I bought my SS a few months ago I went through it to clean/adjust it because it was needed. I installed new blades in the jointer and spent 2 glorious hours trying to set the damn blades with possibly the worst dial indicator and base ever made. In the end they are all within a thou or two. Good enough for me. Anyways, while testing it out I got a damn good finish... until the last 2 1/2" or so when it took out too much material. I finally realized what's happening. The two tables are not perfectly in line horizontally and the trailing edge on the infeed table is slightly taller than the leading edge on the outfeed table. I swear it looked good with a straightedge, but my straightedge was not long enough to cover all of both tables. Anyways, can anyone send me in the right direction of a manual, or tell me how to fix said problem. Thanks guys

Zach

That is a recipe for real significsant snipe regardless of 'technique'.

Do realize the 'height' of the infeed table is adjusted for 'depth of cut'.

With the infeed table set higher than the outfeed table is asking for 'negative' depth of cut.

The infeed table should be set just below the outfeed table. The knives should be set to equal the outfeed table height at the apex of the blade rotation.

Then technique will affect snipe/outcome.

[charlese]

The snipe problem is all about the setting of the blades too high. They should be just very slightly above the outfeed table. A metal gauge when set on edge should be moved ONLY 1/8" forward by a slowly rotating blade. If you can get this to even 1/16" it will be better. This also needs checked on the inside of a cut as well as the outside.

Another, perhaps better, setting is to use a flat glass on the outfeed table and have the blades just barely kiss the glass.

[thezman007]

RCplaneguy: I have tried pressing down on both/either tables throughout and the result is the same.

Hey guys, Anyways, can anyone send me in the right direction of a manual, or tell me how to fix said problem. Thanks guys
Zach

ShopSmith can sell you a printed copy of the Jointer Manual. http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... sindex.htm
There is a manual for the older model 4E jointer (made for the 10er) available online Magna 4" Jointer Owners Guide

Other members who have had a table alignment problem reported a great improvement after cleaning the mating surfaces where the rear table meets the main casting.

Thanks rpd. The table was pulled completely apart, mating surfaces cleaned, and both main tables cleaned of gunk with 400 and 600 grit sandpaper with a sanding block and kerosene (or mineral spirits, I don't remember)

Hi Zach
Welcome to the world of first time jointer tuner uppers.
I think that you will have to go back to square one for a fix. Before starting to set the knives you have to make sure that the tables are absolutely co-planer to each other
This is done by removing the knives and checking the tables. I like to use a good level because they are, or should be, straight and true. Bring the depth indicator to zero and check the alignment of the tables. Place the level on the tables and check to see if any light is passing under the level. If there is then adjust the infeed table so that the level lies flush along the length of the infeed and outfeed tables. Check the zero indicator and adjust if necessary. Also check the table alignment at three positions across the cutter head opening. They should all be the same. (no light) Then check the tables from corner to corner.
Start by installing one of the blades. The height adjustment screws should be at the bottom of their travel.
Make a calibration gauge by using a straight piece of stock (1 X 4 by 6" long will do) and place it on edge flat across the cutter head opening. Mark vertical lines 1/8" apart on the gauge. When you adjust the blade height you will rotate the cutter head in the normal direction and adjust the height until the blade just moves the gauge one division. Do this on the inboard and the outboard end of the knife. then repeat for the rest of the knives.
When you get close to the desired height you will be turning the height adjustment screw about 1/8 of a turn (or less) at a time.
Always make the final turns of the height screw by backing it out of the hole (CCW) to maintain contact with the blade.
If you turn the height screw CW it may lose contact with the blade and when the wedge lock screws are tightened the wedge lock can push the blade down and you will lose the adjustment.
One other point, The bottom of the cutter head slots and all of the components, (knives, screws and wedge locks ) have to be clean and free from any debris that may get in the way of proper contact.
Check the owner's manual if you have it. I have found that Shopsmith's method is the fastest way and the most accurate of setting the knife height. Also number the blades or you may make my mistake of setting more than three knives on your first attempt.
Let us know how you make out.

Bill V

That is very helpful Bill, thank you. However, before starting from square one again and losing 2-3 hours of my life let me make sure it's absolutely necessary. When I installed and adjusted the new blades I did everything you mention. I cleaned the head itself with the air compressor and a rag soaked in kerosene. I cleaned all the wedges and bolts with a wire wheel. I numbered them. I lowered each height screw a few turns, placed the blade in, then raised that blade with the height screw CCW little by little for each of the 3 screws before tightening the wedge down. Each blade measures .001 to .002 above the outfeed table. A short metal ruler is moved 1/8" from the right, middle, and left sections of each blade. I truly don't think the blade height is the problem though I will reset them if it's required. I think my problem is that the tables don't see eye to eye, so to speak. It should look like the top illustration. With the outfeed on the left and infeed on the right. I think mine looks more like the bottom.

jointer.png (1.29 KiB) Viewed 3455 times

If the infeed table was not angled upward at the end or overall (I will have to check tonight) it would not "fall down" as it cleared the end of the infeed and take out more wood right? When the piece is say 2 or 3 feet long when it goes along the tables it straddles the blades by virtue of being on the extreme ends each table. Then when it reaches the end it falls? Maybe both tables angle upward in the outfeed direction. I will have to check it with my straightedge tonight and get back to everyone. Thanks for the suggestions. I will report back.

Zach