Shopsmith Forums

I just wish they made a bench top or stand alone mortiser. But, they don't
So I went with a Delta, thinking Black and Decker surely couldn't screw up the brand too much.
Wishful thinking!!
I took delivery of the machine in late March of this year. Now, that Stupid Delta mortise machine is at the Authorized Repair Shop in Phoenix.
Four teeth stripped off the cog wheel. Crappy Chinese pot metal.
Three weeks (estimate) until the part arrives from Delta. Twenty minutes to install and test it. Then I get to drive another 3.5 hours to pick it up.
Oh well, it lasted through 8 legs for the Morris chairs. It crapped out on the ottomans' legs.
I looked at a Powermatic and Grizzly machine while I was there. Both were about $100 more than the Delta.The Grizzly looked much chintzier than the the PM and even the Delta.
This place is probably the largest woodworking machine sales in AZ. They are dealers for every major brand and even some I've never heard of. (J&J Jointers???)
So I asked the repair shop guys which brand has the most repair calls/waranty work.
Without hesitation, they chorused "GRIZZLY." Why not Delta? Because they don't sell a whole lot of Delta. I guess most woodworkers in AZ are smarter than I.
Shopsmith doesn't NEED a network of Authorized Repair Shops.

Gene Howe wrote:Shopsmith doesn't NEED a network of Authorized Repair Shops.

Sure it does. It's called "owner repairable" if and when something goes wrong.

That's true, Bob.

Hi Gene.
I would look at it this way. You spent an amount of money on a piece of equipment that fit within THAT project budget and got out of it MOST of what you needed. Isn't that better than it failing on the second or third mortise, sending it to where ever it's being repaired or replaced, waiting to get the project finished?

You know I'm not a fan of mortising attachments. Maybe that's why I came up with the dowel center method to create slip tenon joints (though I doubt seriously that I am anywhere near even the first 100 thousandth person to use that method! ).

With the brain of the Power Pro, MAYBE (and I use that qualifier, as just better than a snowball's chance in Phoenix in mid August) the motor system will provide a good way to create a mortise, but then the biggie... the chisels. That is why I suggested getting a second set. No company I know makes a good set which fits on a "hobbist" machine. I am not saying that they aren't out there, but unless Powermatic has a source for the smaller stuff,

I have an older Delta 12.5 planer that goes though bearings. It does a nice job, but last time I ordered bearings I bought 3 complete sets. I think I could field strip that thing in my sleep! . It is however my tradeoff. Price and affordability versus unlimited deep pockets (though I do buy the occasional lotto ticket to try and acquire said pockets ). My simple truth is that since stockholders and bean-counters started making the ultimate decisions, quality is no longer a priority.

Sometimes I think the person who came up with the mortising machine (not the joint) hated woodworkers. When making the hole using hand tools, when it gets difficult, just sharpen the chisel. 15 seconds later you are back in business. However when using the "let's save time" motor, press down harder on that dang dull chisel and bit!! I'll get to sharpening it later.

My opinion (as humble and worthless as it may be) is --- You did the best that you could do given the constraints. Can't ask for more than that (though we often do ). Delta (etal) -- Not so much... However, in the end, we get to make shavings and saw dust. How much better could it get?!?

Be well,
Ben

benush26 wrote:Hi Gene.
I would look at it this way. You spent an amount of money on a piece of equipment that fit within THAT project budget and got out of it MOST of what you needed. Isn't that better than it failing on the second or third mortise, sending it to where ever it's being repaired or replaced, waiting to get the project finished?

You know I'm not a fan of mortising attachments. Maybe that's why I came up with the dowel center method to create slip tenon joints (though I doubt seriously that I am anywhere near even the first 100 thousandth person to use that method! ).

With the brain of the Power Pro, MAYBE (and I use that qualifier, as just better than a snowball's chance in Phoenix in mid August) the motor system will provide a good way to create a mortise, but then the biggie... the chisels. That is why I suggested getting a second set. No company I know makes a good set which fits on a "hobbist" machine. I am not saying that they aren't out there, but unless Powermatic has a source for the smaller stuff,

I have an older Delta 12.5 planer that goes though bearings. It does a nice job, but last time I ordered bearings I bought 3 complete sets. I think I could field strip that thing in my sleep! . It is however my tradeoff. Price and affordability versus unlimited deep pockets (though I do buy the occasional lotto ticket to try and acquire said pockets ). My simple truth is that since stockholders and bean-counters started making the ultimate decisions, quality is no longer a priority.

Sometimes I think the person who came up with the mortising machine (not the joint) hated woodworkers. When making the hole using hand tools, when it gets difficult, just sharpen the chisel. 15 seconds later you are back in business. However when using the "let's save time" motor, press down harder on that dang dull chisel and bit!! I'll get to sharpening it later.

My opinion (as humble and worthless as it may be) is --- You did the best that you could do given the constraints. Can't ask for more than that (though we often do ). Delta (etal) -- Not so much... However, in the end, we get to make shavings and saw dust. How much better could it get?!?

Be well,
Ben

Considering the 'task' I think it should be a whole lot better. If that costs more, then that is the nature of the task.

Unfortunately our favorite tool is also inadequate for the task, but perseverance can make it work.

JPG wrote:

benush26 wrote:Hi Gene.
I would look at it this way. You spent an amount of money on a piece of equipment that fit within THAT project budget and got out of it MOST of what you needed. Isn't that better than it failing on the second or third mortise, sending it to where ever it's being repaired or replaced, waiting to get the project finished?

You know I'm not a fan of mortising attachments. Maybe that's why I came up with the dowel center method to create slip tenon joints (though I doubt seriously that I am anywhere near even the first 100 thousandth person to use that method! ).

With the brain of the Power Pro, MAYBE (and I use that qualifier, as just better than a snowball's chance in Phoenix in mid August) the motor system will provide a good way to create a mortise, but then the biggie... the chisels. That is why I suggested getting a second set. No company I know makes a good set which fits on a "hobbist" machine. I am not saying that they aren't out there, but unless Powermatic has a source for the smaller stuff,

I have an older Delta 12.5 planer that goes though bearings. It does a nice job, but last time I ordered bearings I bought 3 complete sets. I think I could field strip that thing in my sleep! . It is however my tradeoff. Price and affordability versus unlimited deep pockets (though I do buy the occasional lotto ticket to try and acquire said pockets ). My simple truth is that since stockholders and bean-counters started making the ultimate decisions, quality is no longer a priority.

Sometimes I think the person who came up with the mortising machine (not the joint) hated woodworkers. When making the hole using hand tools, when it gets difficult, just sharpen the chisel. 15 seconds later you are back in business. However when using the "let's save time" motor, press down harder on that dang dull chisel and bit!! I'll get to sharpening it later.

My opinion (as humble and worthless as it may be) is --- You did the best that you could do given the constraints. Can't ask for more than that (though we often do ). Delta (etal) -- Not so much... However, in the end, we get to make shavings and saw dust. How much better could it get?!?

Be well,
Ben

Considering the 'task' I think it should be a whole lot better. If that costs more, then that is the nature of the task.

Unfortunately our favorite tool is also inadequate for the task, but perseverance can make it work.

I guess that depends on what you are trying to cut a mortise in. If you are cutting mortises for a timber framed barn that might be a problem.

As we all know hollow chisel mortising has been around for a long time and is still viable today. I think the biggest issue is to have sharp chisels just like bench planes or regular chisels. Then there is the old table creep issue. I wonder if that is a hold over from the 500 days before the telescoping legs. (I know, Dusty, you don't trust the telescoping legs but they really do work.)

I eliminated any table creep with a couple pieces of aluminum angle iron. That and the telescoping legs and the table is rock solid.

A few years ago I made a set of shutters for a friend at work. He had two 4' X 4' windows in his rec room that he wanted shutters on the inside. Each window had four individual 1' X 4' shutters in a bi-fold configuration. Each panel had 32 louvers. The tenons on the louvers were 1/2" X 1/4". I had to make 256 louvers plus a bunch of spares. The stiles of the panels required two cuts with the 1/4" hollow chisel mortising bit for each tenon. That was 1024 cuts plus the ones for the rails.

The bottom line is the SS never missed a beat.

Pine looks easy(still fun assembling I bet).

Tell us about the angle 'iron'.

JPG wrote:Pine looks easy(still fun assembling I bet).

Tell us about the angle 'iron'.

Yes it was clear pine but I have done it in Oak and hard Maple. Again, it is all about sharp tools and in this case it is very important. You can't stick a butter knife in even a piece of pine.

What do you want to know about the angle iron. It is just two pieces of 1 1/2" aluminum angle that sit around the way tubes between the bottom of the table carriage and the end casting or in my case the lift assist bracket. See the first picture in my previous post. They are a positive support for the table carriage. You wouldn't even have to tighten the carriage lock.

jsburger wrote:

JPG wrote:Pine looks easy(still fun assembling I bet).

Tell us about the angle 'iron'.

Yes it was clear pine but I have done it in Oak and hard Maple. Again, it is all about sharp tools and in this case it is very important. You can't stick a butter knife in even a piece of pine.

What do you want to know about the angle iron. It is just two pieces of 1 1/2" aluminum angle that sit around the way tubes between the bottom of the table carriage and the end casting or in my case the lift assist bracket. See the first picture in my previous post. They are a positive support for the table carriage. You wouldn't even have to tighten the carriage lock.

Thank You. That explains it = angles support inner side, poles support outer side.

Yes they are 'visible' but not 'noticeable'. I did look for them 'there' and did not see them b4 asking.

The key is sharp. Did I mention sharp. They do not come from the mother ship sharp. I tried without sharpening. NOT recommended. FWIW a single pole was/is(?) available from the MS.

I have been considering making some(4) louvered cabinet doors. You have provided incentive to get r done! Not possible prior to band saw/planer acquisition. Thanks.

Beautiful shutters!

On the topic of hollow chisel mortising, this is the Shopsmith attachment that seems to get the most criticism. But along comes someone who says it works great. I don't own one so I don't know who to believe.

I always hear folks talk about sharpening the chisels. But I don't hear folks talking about setting the clearance properly as Nick discussed here:

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Tips_Ar ... _Gauge.htm

I have often wondered whether the folks who have experienced problems with the Shopsmith hollow mortising chisel have paid attention to this setting.