cabinets and chest of drawers

[rjent]

OK, another newbie question. Why the construction technique difference between a chest of drawers and a kitchen cabinet. The chest of drawers seems always to be made with an internal structural frame whereas a cabinet seemingly is made from panels and panel joinery.

Cabinet carcass:

cabinet frame.jpg (14.01 KiB) Viewed 21215 times

Chest of drawers carcass:

chest of drawer frame.jpg (50.79 KiB) Viewed 21215 times

It seems to me that either could be made either way, why the difference?

Thanks in advance guys!

[Beave2012]

While I am not a pro by far, I would guess that plywood carcass construction would work well for either application. However, I can not imagine a quality piece of fine heirloom quality furniture being made of plywood.

Typically plywood is a cost saving measure or a necessary evil for stability in encased designs. However in an heirloom quality piece I would use solid hardwood without fasteners (joinery and glue) to have a near immortal piece, since the first thing to go on antiques are the fasteners if the piece is well taken care of. When I sold furniture, the comparison between plywood panels in construction greatly devalued the piece.

Outside of that, I imagine a frame structure proved more support for the drawers to prevent bowing of the panel based carcass. The hardwood frame also would wear better in the long run.

However this is all my guess and I suspect both will work, the above are my guesses.

[dusty]

While I am not a pro by far, I would guess that plywood carcass construction would work well for either application. However, I can not imagine a quality piece of fine heirloom quality furniture being made of plywood.

Typically plywood is a cost saving measure or a necessary evil for stability in encased designs. However in an heirloom quality piece I would use solid hardwood without fasteners (joinery and glue) to have a near immortal piece, since the first thing to go on antiques are the fasteners if the piece is well taken care of. When I sold furniture, the comparison between plywood panels in construction greatly devalued the piece.

Outside of that, I imagine a frame structure proved more support for the drawers to prevent bowing of the panel based carcass. The hardwood frame also would wear better in the long run.

However this is all my guess and I suspect both will work, the above are my guesses.

Would making all of the panels using solid wood (rather than plywood) change your position on this.

I find that a lot of todays more expensive (and heavier) furniture is made using MDF. Don't rely on screws when using MDF and the structure will hold just as well as solid wood if the construction techniques are up to par.

To answer the question asked, I believe both have their place. Cost and height are very important and sometime limiting factors.

Everything that I built for the RV renovation has been 3/8" plywood over a frame structure. Everything that I have built for the shop has been from solid plywood. Quality plywood makes a big difference, too. I avoid, when at all possible, buying plywood from the Box Stores.

[rpd]

OK, another newbie question. Why the construction technique difference between a chest of drawers and a kitchen cabinet. The chest of drawers seems always to be made with an internal structural frame whereas a cabinet seemingly is made from panels and panel joinery.

It seems to me that either could be made either way, why the difference?

Thanks in advance guys!

The kitchen cabinets in the houses I grew up in back in the 50's-60's were built with internal frames, and I think they may have been custom built on site, Now they make them in modules at a factory.

Also kitchen cabinets are installed once and are then fixed in place, dressers get moved more frequently (across the room or across the country)

[davebodner]

My take: carcass construction is ancient, but it was flawed. As woodworkers saw how much wide pieces of wood moved, thus ruining their furniture, over the centuries they developed frame-and-panel construction.

As modern materials were developed (e.g. plywood, mdf, etc.), which didn't move as much a natural wood, they could go back to carcass construction, which was particularly advantageous in high-volume factory situations.

[rjent]

OK, so I am taking it to mean the internal frame is stronger compared to a ply panel cabinet (which I kind of figured it would be the reason) and more suited to multiple moves like furniture would be subjected to. I remember my father in law making a portable pantry for a woman in his church in the 70's. It was lap frame construction and then beautiful solid wood raised panel ends, top, back, and doors. Weighed a ton but was a striking piece. For the life of me, I don't remember how he joined the panels to the frame, but I will figure something out.

I am wanting to make a "pantry" for my wife's kitchen that will be placed next to the refrigerator in a wasted space part of the room. Won't be huge, but I just thought a framed piece with raised panels would look good and I don't like using ply unless I have to.

Thanks guys, you confirmed my suspicions!

[Steamdragon]

The reason for the difference in construction is that the kitchen cabinets are built to maximize storage space and they will be secured to the wall for added structural support. The chest of drawers has to be self supporting so it can be moved around. If you look at cheap furniture that is built like kitchen cabinets they don't survive too many moves before they7 collapse.

[charlese]

OK, another newbie question. Why the construction technique difference between a chest of drawers and a kitchen cabinet. The chest of drawers seems always to be made with an internal structural frame whereas a cabinet seemingly is made from panels and panel joinery.

The easy answer is COST. Mostly based on labor cost. This cost also includes the use of MDF. There are numerous examples of antique furniture and cabinets that are staying square and solid.

The proper techniques of dealing with natural wood, joinery and structure require a degree of skill not held by many of today's furniture/cabinet makers.

BTW - wood movement is not a problem if understood and and that knowledge applied during construction.

[benush26]

Not sure this adds to the relevancy of this thread, but it has to do with "one possible" future of kitchen cabinet construction and "possibly" some furniture.

Last summer I went with a friend who's son and now grandson have a custom cabinet shop to a demo of the Lockdowel system. It's very similar to the old IKEA pin and cam construction except there is no locking cam, just a keyhole in the mating piece made by a router bit. It is a permanent construction method, not portable break down to move system. There are a few videos which show the assembly. Simply, the mating pin is placed in the hole (which has a small bit of wood glue in it), then the piece with the slots is tapped until the edges match and on to the next piece. There are some logistics of which piece gets placed first when multiple interior panels are used, but it was fast.
When I asked the demonstrator about materials which were NOT pressure laminate, he showed a picture of a beautiful cherry and maple cabinet system. It looked very high end. The carcass wood was strictly veneer glued to the laminate interior, exterior and the exposed edges. He also mentioned that a couple European "furniture making companies " were using the lockdowel system because of its strength. Not sure I bought that as true, especially without more contact surface being glued, but the system is fast so I'm certain labor costs are hugely reduced.
The biggest draw backs (two) I can see for a small hobbyist is (one) that the slots really should be made with a CNC machine (though personally I think careful use of guides and a router will yield acceptable results) and (two) the pins in their various configurations, are currently only available in LARGE quantities
If I get to go to AFWS in Las Vegas next month, I intend to visit the various vendors of the exiting systems. Except for small pieces like jewelry boxes and such, if I can make the personal cost aspect work, I plan to make all my cabinets, cases and large items using the locking dowel method (though maybe not specifically the Lockdowel company system products).

Again, not certain this is where this thread started, but I think it sheds some future use light.

Be well,
Ben

The reason the grandfather was going (and not his son) is that he is the financial silent partner and his son is very excited about switching to this new system but Dad was not about to sink more "retirement nest egg" cash into it until he had a good grasp of the benefits.

[JPG]

Think 'structure' vs 'siding'.