Biscuit Joiner

[twalz68225]

I've had my Shopsmith biscuit joiner for some time, but don't use it often because I've always had issues with a pretty noticeable step between the boards that I've joined. Is this normal, or is it an alignment issue or something else (like operator error)? Any help would be appreciated.

[reible]

Hi,

If you are working on projects like table tops then you should see no steps on the "face" side of your work. If the material is not the same thickness you might see it on the back side. Make sure you mark the "face" sides and keep them to the table and make sure they are flat against the table where the cuts are made.

Even if you could make sure the wood was all the same thickness it would be very hard to have things so centered that you could exchange face and back sides.... this flipping is most likely the cause of the stepping.

Ed

[Ed in Tampa]

I've had my Shopsmith biscuit joiner for some time, but don't use it often because I've always had issues with a pretty noticeable step between the boards that I've joined. Is this normal, or is it an alignment issue or something else (like operator error)? Any help would be appreciated.

I too have this problem from time to time. I'm very careful to keep the face or top side always firmly pressed on the table, yet I too end up with steps some times.
I have no idea what the problem is but I suspect the table is not parallel with the blade. Or in my desire to make sure the work piece is firmly pressed down on the table surface, I'm applying too much pressure and causing the table to deflect.

The more I work with the SS the more I see the wisdom of using clamps and hold downs instead of body strength/weight. If the hold down, feather board or clamp is directly onto the table there is no way to deflect the table. However if the is mounted on the quill or something above the table you can deflect the table with it. I try to clamp directly to the table or mount the fence which effectly becomes part of the table and any downward pressure on the holdown will not deflect the table.

I also have the problem using the horizonal boring mode. I can creat steps there also. Again I think I tend to vary the pressure I exert holding the wood to the table. I think if used clamps to hold the piece down and it would resolve the problem.
Ed

[ericolson]

I've pretty much quit dealing with a biscuit joiner. I don't have the Shopsmith version, but I use a DeWalt. I've noticed on perfectly flat stock that even when I'm excrutiatingly anal with set-ups, measuring fifty times and cutting once, that I still get a little mis-alignment of the edges. I took my complaints to a mentor of mine and he showed me how to get my edges perfectly aligned, every time, using cauls. Haven't had a problem since.

Eric

[Ed in Tampa]

I've pretty much quit dealing with a biscuit joiner. I don't have the Shopsmith version, but I use a DeWalt. I've noticed on perfectly flat stock that even when I'm excrutiatingly anal with set-ups, measuring fifty times and cutting once, that I still get a little mis-alignment of the edges. I took my complaints to a mentor of mine and he showed me how to get my edges perfectly aligned, every time, using cauls. Haven't had a problem since.

Eric

Eric

Please give us more information. Could you explain your technique?

When you say cauls I assume you mean clamping boards that span the boards you jointing together. But doesn't that limit you to boards of exact equal thickness and/or a "perfect" flat work surface?

Also I will agree that most of the strength in a joint comes from the glue both a biscuit or dowel do add some strength which would be missing if you didn't use them.

I have seen Norm on New Yankee does some glue ups sans dowels or biscuits I would like to hear more about your technique and experinces. thanks
Ed

[twalz68225]

I think I discovered something. I went over the alignment and set up procedures again and discovered that if I increase the depth of cut of the slot by a hair, I get much better results. Not perfect, but much better. Give that a shot if you are having issues.

[drbob]

I too found the adjustment to be off. It cuts a bit shallow. Your solution is one I use as well. I also double cut the slot. Align just to left of center, cut then repeat just to the right. It gives me a bit of wiggle room in assembly.

[paulmcohen]

I had an early Shopsmith unit and could never get it to work exactly right, the adjustment was always off. I contacted Shopsmith and they said my unit may be at fault. I returned it and they sent a new or fixed mine, replacement works perfect. I wonder if they had a manufacturing issue. I use my 520 legs to support the table front (I think Shopsmith sells a special leg for this) and this seems to prevent the deflection others are compaining about.

[ericolson]

Eric

Could you explain your technique?

When you say cauls I assume you mean clamping boards that span the boards you jointing together. But doesn't that limit you to boards of exact equal thickness and/or a "perfect" flat work surface?

Also I will agree that most of the strength in a joint comes from the glue both a biscuit or dowel do add some strength which would be missing if you didn't use them.

I have seen Norm on New Yankee does some glue ups sans dowels or biscuits I would like to hear more about your technique and experinces. thanks
Ed

I usually use jointed and planed 2 x 4's for my cauls. I put an arc on the working side (the side towards the stock). I'm not sure of the arc diameter, but if I have a 2" wide caul, it'll be 1 7/8" on either end, for a center point of 2". Just a very slight arc. I cover the working side with packing tape so the caul won't get glued to the stock.
90% of the time, the lumber I use is in the rough and I mill it to the specific dimensions of the project I'm working on. For instance: right now I'm working on a pair of Greene and Green style nightstands, in cherry and walnut. The stock I used, in the rough, was 1 1/4" thick. I resawed the stock to just over 5/8" thick, as I wanted to bookmatch the side panels. The finished dimension of the side and back panels are all 1/2" thick. I've planed the panels to the appropriate thickness, and, as even a #0 biscuit is a little too thick for a 1/2" thick panel, I used cauls to ensure everthing stayed flat. I used just enough clamping pressure for a little bit of glue squeeze out, even along the length of the glue line. On one of the panels I had just a tad of misalignment and that was due to uneven clamping pressure and inattentiveness as the end of a long day in the shop. I used a cabinet scraper to remove the squeeze out and a stanley smoothing plane followed by the scraper to even out the one panel.
The cauls were clamped on top of the panels by clamping them to the workbench with just enough pressure to level out the boards. The clamps I had on the panels themselves then got cranked down with enough pressure to give me an even bead of squeeze out. When I see the even bead, I then crank down on the caul clamps a bit more to ensure a panel stays flat.
Oh, the workbench I'm using is the table top of my 16" Goodell and Waters table saw (made in 1895 and originally run off of a lineshaft). I fried the run capacitor in the motor and have been too lazy to fix it. But, the table top is gigantic (don't remember the dimensions) and it makes a great assembly table. Even when the saw was working, I used it for glue-ups.
In my experience, modern adhesives are more than sufficient strength-wise. I continue to use biscuits, but only in certain applications. I used to have all kinds of problems with excessive glue squeeze out. I used a flux brush (the little silver kind) to spread the glue on the edges of the stock I was using. I now use one of those little cheapo paint spreaders that you can pick up from Home Depot or Lowes. Little red handle and the roller is a 3" long yellow sponge looking thing. Perfect glue distribution every single time!! I bought a three pack of extra rollers and have yet to replace the original and have been using it for a year now. So long as you don't let the glue harden, you can keep re-using it.
I used to do predominately machine tool work, but over the last year or so have really gotten into hand tools, primarily using hand planes and cabinet scrapers. I still use the machinery for dimensioning and milling, but I'll use the hand tools where appropriate for finish work. I've found it's a lot easier and faster, in a lot of instances, to use hand tools vice jigging up and setting up machinery. If the project I'm working on is fairly large, say a blanket chest or sideboard, then I'll use my air powered random orbit sanders. If the project is smaller, like a coffee table or end table, then for smoothing I'll use a cabinet scraper with a finish sanding at 220 grit. I very, very, rarely use stain! I've developed my own finish using a tung oil, beeswax, and mineral spirits blend. If one of my clients wants me to stain a piece, I urge them to choose a species of wood that reflects their color choice. Of course, if a client gets insistent, then I do as the client wants. I just hate seeing stain go on cherry. There is no man made product, in my opinion, that can equal naturally darkened cherry.
I continue to watch Norm as he's the one that got me started on all of this, but someone you may want to watch to learn some different techniques is David Marks on the DIY channel. He hosts Woodworks. His stuff is more contemporary than Norm's, but he's got an arsenal of different woodworking techniques.

Eric
Rock Creek Designs