Shopsmith Forums

I have a question if everyone is concerned about lack of air flow why not cut an opening in the shroud that goes around the motor and duct it to the the outside? It could be easily sealed as could all the other identified leaks. Then the motor fan could suck in fresh cool air through the duct and all vacuum created by the fan that sucks in air would not draw in dirt air from inside the dust collector.

Ed in Tampa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:30 pm I have a question if everyone is concerned about lack of air flow why not cut an opening in the shroud that goes around the motor and duct it to the the outside? It could be easily sealed as could all the other identified leaks. Then the motor fan could suck in fresh cool air through the duct and all vacuum created by the fan that sucks in air would not draw in dirt air from inside the dust collector.

The shroud that goes around the motor (Motor Housing) already vents directly to the outside through the grate.

Ed in Tampa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:30 pm I have a question if everyone is concerned about lack of air flow why not cut an opening in the shroud that goes around the motor and duct it to the the outside? It could be easily sealed as could all the other identified leaks. Then the motor fan could suck in fresh cool air through the duct and all vacuum created by the fan that sucks in air would not draw in dirt air from inside the dust collector.

I think this is a good idea, but I don't think that cooling fan would make a good, or even fair, exhaust fan. I know it feels like it would, as Dusty says, air comes out of that grill with some gusto. But current thinking is that air is also going in the grill with gusto, at the center of that fan. If I can think of an easy way to mock this up I might give it a try and see if there is robust airflow in any direction that includes cooling the motor.

I think I'm in a very small minority of folk(s?) that both have one of these and thinks there is a serious thermal problem with it. I'm reluctant to modify any parts of the kit until I get some kind of response from SS on the quality problem I pointed out on the motor housing that's causing at least a significant portion of my leak. For now if I put it back together at all it will be with temporary seals and a thermocouple.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:29 pm I think this is a good idea, but I don't think that cooling fan would make a good, or even fair, exhaust fan. I know it feels like it would, as Dusty says, air comes out of that grill with some gusto. But current thinking is that air is also going in the grill with gusto, at the center of that fan. If I can think of an easy way to mock this up I might give it a try and see if there is robust airflow in any direction that includes cooling the motor.

I think I'm in a very small minority of folk(s?) that both have one of these and thinks there is a serious thermal problem with it. I'm reluctant to modify any parts of the kit until I get some kind of response from SS on the quality problem I pointed out on the motor housing that's causing at least a significant portion of my leak. For now if I put it back together at all it will be with temporary seals and a thermocouple.

- David

David,

I understand your concerns about that "cooling" fan on the back of the motor, which is why I suggested adding additional fans. Of course, I am hoping that Shopsmith responds with a suitable solution for you. However, if that doesn't materialize, what I was suggesting was adding additional cooling with computer case fans. I have seen them as small as 40mm and sizes up to 200mm. I would think you could get one that should fit in the corner of the motor housing between it and the motor. I included a pic below showing the push-pull configuration that I would do. Essentially, you could put two in the top corners exhausting air out from the top of the motor housing, and then another two on the bottom pulling air into the motor housing. This arrangement should work well to keep airflow going across the motor case fins to help cool it off, but this will only work if that cooling fan on the back of the motor is anemic so that it doesn't interfere much with these computer case fans. These fans are inexpensive so they won't break the bank to experiment with and you can get them in 120VAC versions so that you could easily wire them to the DC-3300. Anyway, thought I would include the pic in case my earlier post wasn't clear. This is just a bandaid to fix the thermal inadequacies of the upgrade, but it would be better if Shopsmith addressed it for all owners.

The impeller could be removed thus non interfering.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:09 am David,

I understand your concerns about that "cooling" fan on the back of the motor, which is why I suggested adding additional fans. Of course, I am hoping that Shopsmith responds with a suitable solution for you. However, if that doesn't materialize, what I was suggesting was adding additional cooling with computer case fans. I have seen them as small as 40mm and sizes up to 200mm. I would think you could get one that should fit in the corner of the motor housing between it and the motor. I included a pic below showing the push-pull configuration that I would do. Essentially, you could put two in the top corners exhausting air out from the top of the motor housing, and then another two on the bottom pulling air into the motor housing. This arrangement should work well to keep airflow going across the motor case fins to help cool it off, but this will only work if that cooling fan on the back of the motor is anemic so that it doesn't interfere much with these computer case fans. These fans are inexpensive so they won't break the bank to experiment with and you can get them in 120VAC versions so that you could easily wire them to the DC-3300. Anyway, thought I would include the pic in case my earlier post wasn't clear. This is just a bandaid to fix the thermal inadequacies of the upgrade, but it would be better if Shopsmith addressed it for all owners.
DC6000_push_pull.jpg

I have to apologize. Your previous post was perfectly clear, but I either failed to see it or missed the second paragraph.

- David

DLB wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:45 am
I have to apologize. Your previous post was perfectly clear, but I either failed to see it or missed the second paragraph.

- David

David,

No worries. It happens on these long threads like this one with lots of activity. A picture definitely helps as well. I know it is a lot more work, but this is how I would "fix" this problem if it were my upgraded DC-3300. The only question is whether the size of fan that will fit in the corners, like I showed, will be enough airflow to cool that motor quick enough to limit the thermal rise to a reasonable level or not. IF they would work, it would at least be a concealed solution that fits inside the existing housing. Of course, if you also can remove that fan on the back of the motor, you might be able to place a 200mm or larger fan in the center of the other 4 fans to help exhaust heat from the end of the motor.

dusty wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:24 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:30 pm I have a question if everyone is concerned about lack of air flow why not cut an opening in the shroud that goes around the motor and duct it to the the outside? It could be easily sealed as could all the other identified leaks. Then the motor fan could suck in fresh cool air through the duct and all vacuum created by the fan that sucks in air would not draw in dirt air from inside the dust collector.

The shroud that goes around the motor (Motor Housing) already vents directly to the outside through the grate.

I agree, from what I read but everyone feels like there is no air flow over the motor. If a duct with fresh air was put in the front and with the back open and having a fan I would think cool air from outside would be drawn into the ducting over the motor cooling it and exhausted out the back by the fan.

RFGuy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:09 am

DLB wrote: ↑Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:29 pm I think this is a good idea, but I don't think that cooling fan would make a good, or even fair, exhaust fan. I know it feels like it would, as Dusty says, air comes out of that grill with some gusto. But current thinking is that air is also going in the grill with gusto, at the center of that fan. If I can think of an easy way to mock this up I might give it a try and see if there is robust airflow in any direction that includes cooling the motor.

I think I'm in a very small minority of folk(s?) that both have one of these and thinks there is a serious thermal problem with it. I'm reluctant to modify any parts of the kit until I get some kind of response from SS on the quality problem I pointed out on the motor housing that's causing at least a significant portion of my leak. For now if I put it back together at all it will be with temporary seals and a thermocouple.

- David

David,

I understand your concerns about that "cooling" fan on the back of the motor, which is why I suggested adding additional fans. Of course, I am hoping that Shopsmith responds with a suitable solution for you. However, if that doesn't materialize, what I was suggesting was adding additional cooling with computer case fans. I have seen them as small as 40mm and sizes up to 200mm. I would think you could get one that should fit in the corner of the motor housing between it and the motor. I included a pic below showing the push-pull configuration that I would do. Essentially, you could put two in the top corners exhausting air out from the top of the motor housing, and then another two on the bottom pulling air into the motor housing. This arrangement should work well to keep airflow going across the motor case fins to help cool it off, but this will only work if that cooling fan on the back of the motor is anemic so that it doesn't interfere much with these computer case fans. These fans are inexpensive so they won't break the bank to experiment with and you can get them in 120VAC versions so that you could easily wire them to the DC-3300. Anyway, thought I would include the pic in case my earlier post wasn't clear. This is just a bandaid to fix the thermal inadequacies of the upgrade, but it would be better if Shopsmith addressed it for all owners.
DC6000_push_pull.jpg

What cooling deficiency??? Has there been any detailed scientific testing showing that there is a deficiency? Was there any test data available from the DC-3300 that indicates it ran cooler than does the DC-6000.? How many DC motor burnouts have you heard about? I know of one failure and no indication it was heat related.

Remember - the two motor housings are almost duplicates of one another. YES, I know that the motors are not but I don't know that one runs hotter than the other.

I believe that we might be jumping to conclusions that can not be substantiated.

dusty wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:07 pm What cooling deficiency??? Has there been any detailed scientific testing showing that there is a deficiency? Was there any test data available from the DC-3300 that indicates it ran cooler than does the DC-6000.? How many DC motor burnouts have you heard about? I know of one failure and no indication it was heat related.

Remember - the two motor housings are almost duplicates of one another. YES, I know that the motors are not but I don't know that one runs hotter than the other.

I believe that we might be jumping to conclusions that can not be substantiated.

Dusty,

I am just basing it on the measurements that David took (links below). I know it is only a sample size of one. Can you do some thermal measurements on your upgrade to prove/disprove whether this is an issue on your upgrade?

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