Shopsmith 8" Jointer Idea???

[BuckeyeDennis]

Why reinvent the wheel? I’m wondering of Shopsmith could source a private-labeled version of that Rikon jointer (or similar), sans motor, and adapted (or adaptable) for SPT mounting and headstock drive. That should eliminate about 90% of the development cost, and let SS piggyback on someone else’s economies of scale.

I checked out the Rikon jointer reviews on Amazon. Most were very positive, but then most were by novice woodworkers. The critical reviews complained about insufficient power for hardwood, and that the cutterhead is actually “spiral” rather than helical. A look at the exploded parts diagramon the Rikon site shed a little light on that latter distinction.

Driving the jointer from a Shopsmith headstock certainly should resolve the insufficient power problem. As for the cutterhead, no doubt some more money would buy a true helical head.

[dusty]

They should not have spent their money on the DC-6000 either.

Yeah, it was definitely disappointing that it didn't have better performance.

The 6000 actually does what it was advertised to do. It makes all three ports capable of what the 3000 did when using only one port. I hardly ever attach more than one hose - so - no gain for me.

Read and understand the specs before you buy.

[RFGuy]

Why reinvent the wheel? I’m wondering of Shopsmith could source a private-labeled version of that Rikon jointer (or similar), sans motor, and adapted (or adaptable) for SPT mounting and headstock drive. That should eliminate about 90% of the development cost, and let SS piggyback on someone else’s economies of scale.

Definitely could be an option and one Shopsmith has pursued before, e.g. scroll saw (Excalibur), DC-330L (actually Rikon), etc. They don't always sell home grown tools, but sometimes rebrand or adapt other tools to their platform.

[RFGuy]

The 6000 actually does what it was advertised to do. It makes all three ports capable of what the 3000 did when using only one port. I hardly ever attach more than one hose - so - no gain for me.

Read and understand the specs before you buy.

Dusty,

Just to be clear, the DC-6000 does not achieve the rated 200CFM in each port if all 3 ports are in use. See link below. It was however an improvement over the original DC-3300. With only one port open only, the DC-6000 finally got to 200CFM airflow.

viewtopic.php?p=304069#p304069

[algale]

Why reinvent the wheel? I’m wondering of Shopsmith could source a private-labeled version of that Rikon jointer (or similar), sans motor, and adapted (or adaptable) for SPT mounting and headstock drive. That should eliminate about 90% of the development cost, and let SS piggyback on someone else’s economies of scale.

I checked out the Rikon jointer reviews on Amazon. Most were very positive, but then most were by novice woodworkers. The critical reviews complained about insufficient power for hardwood, and that the cutterhead is actually “spiral” rather than helical. A look at the exploded parts diagramon the Rikon site shed a little light on that latter distinction.

Driving the jointer from a Shopsmith headstock certainly should resolve the insufficient power problem. As for the cutterhead, no doubt some more money would buy a true helical head.

I had the same thought Dennis. Still you need to find a willing partner and they probably want to see some some assurance of sales at sufficient scale before changing their production line.

[edma194]

Lots of great ideas here folks. I question whether a short bed 6" joiner is significantly better than the Shopsmith 4" joiner. Yes, you could flatten a 6" wide board, but it would have to be pretty flat already on a short bed like the Rikon. That's the reason using a planer sled look like a good alternative. The simple glue it down variety should work fine for a variety of board thicknesses and conditions. That Shop Notes style looks interesting but I'd think you need to glue down thinner stock anyway. For any kind of planer sled weight has to be a consideration as the sled gets longer and the need for longer infeed and outfeed supports to avoid snipe become more important.

If they still get order for 4" joiners Shopsmith might as well keep making them but if they're not going to engineer something new and innovative they may as well sell someone else's joiners in stand-alone versions on stands with Shopsmith style casters, or without motors made to mount on SPT tubes. They could get into something much larger as a stand-alone model, but then I'd ask if they really could make something better than Grizzly and others?

I don't think I'm too far off course asking if the 21st century Shopsmith needs a version of every type of woodworking power tool. Can Shopsmith make joiners and planers that are significantly more practical than the competitors in either stand-alone or SPT form? Would it be worth doing just to have every tool in your workshop bear the Shopsmith logo?

[RFGuy]

Lots of great ideas here folks. I question whether a short bed 6" joiner is significantly better than the Shopsmith 4" joiner. Yes, you could flatten a 6" wide board, but it would have to be pretty flat already on a short bed like the Rikon. That's the reason using a planer sled look like a good alternative. The simple glue it down variety should work fine for a variety of board thicknesses and conditions. That Shop Notes style looks interesting but I'd think you need to glue down thinner stock anyway. For any kind of planer sled weight has to be a consideration as the sled gets longer and the need for longer infeed and outfeed supports to avoid snipe become more important.

If they still get order for 4" joiners Shopsmith might as well keep making them but if they're not going to engineer something new and innovative they may as well sell someone else's joiners in stand-alone versions on stands with Shopsmith style casters, or without motors made to mount on SPT tubes. They could get into something much larger as a stand-alone model, but then I'd ask if they really could make something better than Grizzly and others?

I don't think I'm too far off course asking if the 21st century Shopsmith needs a version of every type of woodworking power tool. Can Shopsmith make joiners and planers that are significantly more practical than the competitors in either stand-alone or SPT form? Would it be worth doing just to have every tool in your workshop bear the Shopsmith logo?

Ed,

Thanks. I still would want some kind of table extension on a short bed jointer, or if not I would make my own similar to what Nick Engler showed in that one video before. You can use roller stands but not always easy to align and level those out. So, I wouldn't use a short bed jointer for any long parts that I need to joint unless it was near straight and square to begin with.

I definitely agree on your last point. There might be areas that Shopsmith can't compete on or just don't have the manpower, resources, etc. for, but if they want to continue to be a viable woodworking tool company into the future, I believe they need to start refreshing and/or designing some new tools.

[dusty]

The 6000 actually does what it was advertised to do. It makes all three ports capable of what the 3000 did when using only one port. I hardly ever attach more than one hose - so - no gain for me.

Read and understand the specs before you buy.

Dusty,

Just to be clear, the DC-6000 does not achieve the rated 200CFM in each port if all 3 ports are in use. See link below. It was however an improvement over the original DC-3300. With only one port open only, the DC-6000 finally got to 200CFM airflow.

viewtopic.php?p=304069#p304069

Let us agree that our DCs did not achieve 200CFM on each and all ports. Further down in that same thread is a document from Jim McCann. Reading that carefully it states that the DC-6000 is spec'd for 200cfm at all three ports with all three ports open. Mine gets close but NO

[HopefulSSer]

Shopsmith can't compete head to head with the big names -- Jet, Powermatic, Rikon, Laguna, Sawstop et al selling standalone tools. Those are well-established brands well known to, for lack of a better term, "conventional woodworkers." We Shopsmith owners are "alternative woodworkers" -- we've got a "secret" tool that has some very real advantages over conventional standalone tools (footprint being one of them) but we're a very small community. A lot of "conventional woodworkers" -- it they even know what Shopsmith is -- think that a Shopsmith is a klugey toy machine that can't do real work. I've spoken to these people and know their prejudice against the brand and product. So if SS want to market stand-alone machines, why would conventional woodworkers buy SS over well-known, well-represented, well-marketed brands? Mostly, they won't. So SS need to capitalize on the things that set them apart from others. I'm not saying don't modernize -- absolutely do modernize! But focus on differentiation. Sell what sets SS apart from all the others.

[RFGuy]

Shopsmith can't compete head to head with the big names -- Jet, Powermatic, Rikon, Laguna, Sawstop et al selling standalone tools. Those are well-established brands well known to, for lack of a better term, "conventional woodworkers." We Shopsmith owners are "alternative woodworkers" -- we've got a "secret" tool that has some very real advantages over conventional standalone tools (footprint being one of them) but we're a very small community. A lot of "conventional woodworkers" -- it they even know what Shopsmith is -- think that a Shopsmith is a klugey toy machine that can't do real work. I've spoken to these people and know their prejudice against the brand and product. So if SS want to market stand-alone machines, why would conventional woodworkers buy SS over well-known, well-represented, well-marketed brands? Mostly, they won't. So SS need to capitalize on the things that set them apart from others. I'm not saying don't modernize -- absolutely do modernize! But focus on differentiation. Sell what sets SS apart from all the others.

Thanks. I thought Shopsmith was a well established brand, even before some of the big names you mentioned, so it seems like they should be jockeying for position since they predate some of them. There were big names like Delta, Craftsman, Powermatic, etc. (forgive me for not knowing all the other brands selling tablesaws back in the 1950's) competing with Shopsmith from the beginning, so what exactly has changed here? There was always competition. I've never considered myself an "alternative woodworker" even though the bulk of equipment in my shop is Shopsmith brand and I started out on my Dad's 510, even though he had a Sears TS before this. I agree on the small footprint and for sure that should be a selling point. Does this mean that Shopsmith shouldn't also try to compete on standalone tools? I don't know, it is an interesting question. I have encountered the "conventional woodworkers" that you mention and also why I stopped going to my local woodworking meetup club. Fine woodworking and Shopsmith are definitely considered to be mutually exclusive by a portion of the woodworking community which is unfortunate and NOT true. I don't have answers here, but I know Shopsmith needs to re-engage with the market and find their niche, whatever it is and focus their energies there. I also believe they should focus on customer retention. How many customers have started on Shopsmith, only to leave later? How many long term customers like myself are tired of not having options like an 8" jointer that can mount on my Mark V? I don't know the answer, but Shopsmith should try to answer these questions. Retaining existing customers should be their primary goal and secondary goals of bringing in new customers and increasing market share IMHO.