New Member - Recently retired & bought 2 Mark 5 500s to restore

[pprime]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and recently bought two Mark 5 500s with the thinking that I could rebuild one good system from them. Lots of rust and grime on both. I have had the older motor rebuilt (thanks to Skip in Bowie, TX), now it runs very quiet. After lots of research and watching hours of videos, i was was able to break down, clean, oil/wax, and rebuild both systems. I'm in the process of stripping the paint on both as they appear to have been repainted (very poorly).

The older system (s/n 377998) looks to have some green and tan paint under the grey.
Can someone please help me determine what the original colors were?

I've attached pics of the serial numbers.

I really appreciate any help.

Paul

[GetterDone]

Welcome to the Forum.

Lots of good information here.
I am still somewhat of a Newbie.

When you stated that the older 377998 had green and tan paint under the gray,
It is probably a what is referred to as a Greenie.

More experienced members than me can probably confirm that.

The other one (40096 serial #) may be a 1979 Mark V.

I have a thread of where I am restoring a 1984 Mark V in this link below.

Link: viewtopic.php?t=35610

[chapmanruss]

Good morning Paul,

As promised I can give you some information on your Shopsmith tools. Let's start with the Mark 5 serial number 377998. You said,

The older system (s/n 377998) looks to have some green and tan paint under the grey.

It is a mystery to me as to why it would have been painted in the Greenie colors at some point. It could be that it has parts from other Mark 5's. S/N 377998 would have been made in 1962 and likely in the last quarter of the year by Magna American. That is a best guess on the months. With that serial number it should have the Poly V Drive, introduced by mid 1961 and the 1-1/8 HP Motor. The original color for that Mark 5 should be the Goldie color paint of Gold and Copper with the hammered finish. One member here just finished his restoration of a Goldie which looks great. He used Rust-oleum Gold and Copper Hammered Finish Paint. Below is a picture of a Goldie I restored a few years ago to give you an idea of how one would look. It is painted in Rust-oleum Oatmeal and Copper Hammered Finish Paint. It is shown with everything it would have come with from the factory plus the Lathe Chisels and Retractable Casters.

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368624 restored.jpg (124.1 KiB) Viewed 35274 times

.
So, as I said it could have parts from other Mark 5's which could account for it having green as the original paint for some parts. The tan could be the "gold" and with other paint over it could change the color some. I used the Rust-oleum Oatmeal color Hammered Finish Paint on that restoration instead of Gold. It looked closer to the original paint being less yellow than gold and is a bit more tan in color. To me it was a near perfect color match. Unfortunately, Rust-oleum no longer makes the oatmeal color paint. Literature from that time shows the Goldie looking as being painted with the Rust-oleum gold color paint being a match.

Let's move on to the other Mark 5. Serial Number SS 40096 was made in July 1979 by Shopsmith Inc. That one should be gray. Like your other Mark 5 it should have the extra table slot close to the Headstock side. You can see the end of the extra table slot in the picture above just over the left side of the miter. That is a feature of the Main Table that ended in early 1980. It is details in the parts themselves that can indicate if a given Shopsmith tools has changes or upgrades from its original parts.

The Jointer serial number 10754 was made in October 1979. Being an older model there have since been changes made to the current Jointer for sale today. The good news is current parts and upgrades will work on your Jointer. Some parts can be replaced individually while other parts have to be changed as assemblies.

As for the colors Shopsmith tools were painted the Mark 5 began as "Greenies" with green and silver Hammered Finish Paint from its introduction in 1954. In 1960 it changed to the "Goldie" with gold and copper Hammered Finish Paint. In 1963 it changed to the gray color we still see today.

[pprime]

Thanks for the information gentlemen!

Both main tables have two slots and each has retractable casters. To your point Russ, I also feel like the 1962 system is made up with parts from other models. The lathe tail stocks and tool rests are gray for both.

I guess for now, on the 1962 system, I will just paint the bench ends (legs) gray primer...too much rust on them.

I plan to repaint all painted components on the 1979 system in gray primer too.

Attached a pic of the gray over the green below.

[DLB]

One thing to be aware of is that the original Greenies have larger diameter base (lower) tubes. The end castings, Base and Headrest, are different to accommodate those tubes. If your '62 is made from components of older models, you may run into this. I don't know exactly when the Base tube diameter was changed to current version, but someone else here may. These parts will work fine as long as they are kept together.

- David

[JPG]

IIUC the 1 7/8" bench tubes were changed about the same time as the goldie/poly-v changes. AIUI the early goldies had the larger bench tubes. Sequence there is hazy with overlap likely.

[chapmanruss]

The Bench Tube diameter changed sometime prior to change to the Poly V Drive. It went from 1-7/8" to 1-3/4" diameter. I have an April 1961 Mark 5 Goldie I am restoring with 1-3/4" Bench Tubes, the 1-1/8 HP motor and the "special" Gilmer Drive.

Check the diameter of the Bench Tubes to see if they are 1-3/4" diameter as it should have as a 1962 Mark 5. If it has the larger 1-7/8" diameter Bench Tubes than the Headstock does not match the Bench frame. What difference does this make? Not much as it will operate the same either way. The plus having the 1962 Headstock is it has the larger 1-1/8 HP Motor and the Poly V drive still in use today.

[pprime]

Thanks Russ

I will measure the tubes later today and let you know. I'm guessing have now that I have a 'FrankenSmith' one my hands!

Have you seen the Stanley hand plane 'Type Study'' document? Wondering if there is anything similar for ShopSmith showing the changes/modification by year manufactured date. I have seen lots of this forums posts showing lots of related information, but is a there single document out there with those details.

Paul

[pprime]

Well, after a closer inspection....

The tubes are all 1 3/4". The bench tubes do have some small patches silver paint.

While investigating why the quill was difficult to extend, I found some hand engraved numbers on it !!!! 00350785. maybe another s/n. I also found this same number engraved on the upper headstock casting near the power switch. Maybe this was done by the original owner??

thanks to everyone's support!!

[chapmanruss]

Having 1-3/4 Bench Tubes means they are not from a Greenie and the paint patches help indicate they are from a Goldie.

Something to know is several references in the Shopsmith Catalog point to pre-1972 as all having the larger Bench Tubes which is incorrect. When purchasing upgrades that vary with Bench Tube size pre 1972 is for the 1-7/8" Bench Tubes while those made after 1972 are for the 1-3/4" Bench Tubes so buy accordingly.

The engraved number is likely a way for a previous owner to identify it in case it was stolen. It is easy to remove the identifying serial number from the Mark V by simply removing the Vent/Serial Number plate on the Belt Cover for older ones. Even easier to remove the sticker on newer Shopsmith tools. Not as easy to remove the engraving on the Quill or Headstock Casting.

The easiest thing you can do is lightly file/sand down the roughness from the engraving on the Quill so it can move smoothly in and out of the Headstock.