Caveat Emptor - End castings(used)

[JPG]

Apparently Greenies Some if NOT all) have 1 7/8" BENCH tubes. Goldies(and later) have 1 3/4" BENCH tubes. BOTH have 1 3/4" WAY tubes(as well as the 10 E/R).

The Center to Center spacing of the bench tubes IS the same! The End Castings of the Greeniie(1 7/8" Bench Tubes) IS DIFFERENT from all other models(1 3/4" Bench Tubes).

These later model end castings have locating ribs on the outside for the bench tubes which are 1/16" 'taller' than the Greenie.

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This is the ribs on Mickyd's Greenie(Thanks mike). Notice the shape is roughly square. I do not know the actual dimensions, But IMHO they are 5/16" x 5/16".

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This is the same ribs on a Goldie casting. Notice the ribs are 'taller' than they are wide. Actual measurements are 5/16" wide x 3/8" 'tall'.

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This is the ribs on the other end casting(away from the hinged end). Notice what appear to be added height to the ribs. These ribe are 'thinner' than the ribs on the hinge end casting. They measure about 7/32" x 7/16". This added height appears to be 1/16".

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This is a near bore shot of the bench tube hole in the end casting. Notice the rib extending into the 'bore'.

The extra rib height positions the smaller(1 3/4") bench tubes at the same ctr - ctr distance as the larger bench tubes with an end casting with shorter ribs.

The inner side of the bench tubes is positioned by the clamp which has a bevel which forces the tube tight onto the ribs. I do NOT believe these clamps vary from model to model.

This can be a problem IF you are obtaining used end castings(where-ever) and do NOT get the correct one(s)!

If you HAVE 1 7/8" Bench tubes, You NEED Greenie vintage.

If you HAVE 1 3/4" Bench tubes, You DO NOT want Greenie vintage.(See Below) I believe all Goldies and later have 1 3/4" bench tubes(Very small observations/input to be sure).

If ANY of the above is inaccurate, Please post a correction and I WILL so edit THIS post.

Added 5/15/2009 Greenie end castings WILL work with smaller(1 3/4") bench tubes, but the tube spacing will be 1/8" further apart.

[robinson46176]

Did this thread start in the middle?
I don't recall if I ever even looked really closely at the differences since I have enough of both kinds to put them together matched. I was aware of the size differences long ago. Of course if you have the large bench tubes they will not fit in the smaller holes. I first learned that when I cleaned up a set of tubes one time and had a nicely painted set of end castings and it just wouldn't go, even with cussing. I had to clean up another set of tubes as I recall.
I'm not sure if there really is a problem going the other way??? I'm not saying there isn't, I just don't recall.
I suspect wooden poles would work for bench tubes. In fact the 10-ER uses a wooden bench for the same function as the Mark V bench tubes.

[JPG]

Did this thread start in the middle?
I don't recall if I ever even looked really closely at the differences since I have enough of both kinds to put them together matched. I was aware of the size differences long ago. Of course if you have the large bench tubes they will not fit in the smaller holes. I first learned that when I cleaned up a set of tubes one time and had a nicely painted set of end castings and it just wouldn't go, even with cussing. I had to clean up another set of tubes as I recall.
I'm not sure if there really is a problem going the other way??? I'm not saying there isn't, I just don't recall.
I suspect wooden poles would work for bench tubes. In fact the 10-ER uses a wooden bench for the same function as the Mark V bench tubes.

I agree. The 1 3/4" tubes would work with 1 7/8" end castings. The spacing would be off, but does not affect their function.

Speaking of 10 E/R, their way tubes are twice as thick. They connect into Cast Iron. This is much stronger than the Mark 5/V setup.

IMHO SS lightened the way tube since the added bench tubes provided additional support(frame wise not way tube wise) and they were probably trying to keep the total weight down.

Actually the holes are the SAME size, but the extra rib height gets in the way of a larger tube.

[robinson46176]

I agree. The 1 3/4" tubes would work with 1 7/8" end castings. The spacing would be off, but does not affect their function.

Speaking of 10 E/R, their way tubes are twice as thick. They connect into Cast Iron. This is much stronger than the Mark 5/V setup.

IMHO SS lightened the way tube since the added bench tubes provided additional support(frame wise not way tube wise) and they were probably trying to keep the total weight down.

Actually the holes are the SAME size, but the extra rib height gets in the way of a larger tube.

I thought that was the way I remembered it being. I understand what you are saying, to be aware. It would be very discouraging for someone to wait a week for an Ebay auction to end. Then wait another week for the post office to find your house. Then be standing there trying to shove your existing set of large tubes into a newly delivered set of end castings and have them not fit... It might require them to ask everybody to leave the shop so that they can "talk" to the parts...

[Danimal713]

The holes in older castings are larger. I too found out the hard way when trying to put a mini together and the larger tubes did not fit the smaller holes on the base I was trying to use. I ended up filing the holes (and ribs) to make the larger tubes fit. Care needs to be taken and I have tried to avoid this combination since cause filing is a pain as well as it does throw the centering off as mentioned. It can work though as I have needed to do it several times since. Now I use a tie bar connector to test fit to make sure the tubes are the 1 3/4 BEFORE I start assembling a machine.