Noisy Headstock

[Chasboy1]

Hi Folks, seems like everytime I use my 1954 Greenie I get a new noise. I think I’ve repaired , then when I use it again I get a new one. I’d appreciate any advice. I’ve had this machine since 1972. I had it rebuilt years ago by Jacob, but it’s never been right since.
Thank you

[chiroindixon]

some quick free advise....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CclZ3PNEj_M

Doc

[chapmanruss]

Noises can come from several different sources in the headstock. First make sure the movable Sheaves on the Motor and Idler Shafts are properly lubricated. Also lubricate the moving parts of the Speed Control Assembly.

Now for noise problems.

On the Motor Shaft make sure the fixed Fan Sheave is properly spaced out from the motor and locked in place by it's set screw. If it moves in towards the motor, it will rub and make noise.

The Idler Shaft Assembly can be a source of noise. The Idler Shaft Assembly in the first Mark 5's made in 1954 were only held in place by the clamping screw and nut to the Headstock Casting. This created a problem especially as the Sheaves needed to be relubricated and therefore more force needed as the speed is changed. Changing the speed could cause the entire Idler Shaft Assembly to move in and out of the Headstock Casting's mounting point. The source of the noise was moving parts contacting fixed parts. Overtightening the screw and nut can cause the Headstock Casting's ears to break when trying to keep the Idler Shaft assembly from moving in its mounting. Soon the Engineers at Magna came up with a fix by adding a pair of retainers as seen circled in the section of the parts diagram below.

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Motor p26 8-55 Retainers.jpg (106.94 KiB) Viewed 26582 times

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The Screw that holds the Idler Shaft Assembly goes through the hole in the retainers between the ears of the Headstock Casting. This method predates the addition of the screw in the Headstock Casting and the one in the Eccentric which is shown in the picture below. Sorry I don't have a picture of an actual pair of Retainers in position, but they go on the screw in the place indicated by the arrow.

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Idler Shaft retainer location.jpg (122.48 KiB) Viewed 26582 times

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Another noise source is the button bearing with the loop on the movable Sheave of the Idler Shaft Assembly. If it goes bad the Loop usually get torn off the end of the button bearing and the end is then no longer rotating against the part of the Speed Control Assembly it contacts.

Then there are the bearings that could be making noise. A noisy bearing is a sign it should be replaced. There are bearings in the Motor, the bearing for the Idler Shaft Assembly besides the Button Bearing there, Bearings in the Drive Sleeve Assembly and one or two Bearings in the Quill.

Another source to look for would be something out of place inside the Headstock that is now rubbing on a moving part.

[DLB]

some quick free advise....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CclZ3PNEj_M

Migration of the Idler Assembly into the headstock as described in this video is, IMO, a problem that's unique to PowerPro. The speed control in the conventional headstock provides an outward force that would have to be overcome for this type of migration to occur. That's completely different than the PowerPro, where the inboard end of the Idler is free floating. If it were to somehow occur on a conventional headstock, it would result in a speed change or damage to the speed control, along with other symptoms. I don't fully understand how it happens on PowerPro, but I have seen it on my own machine and it occurred without a SPT attached to the Idler hub.

- David

[chapmanruss]

David,

You said,

Migration of the Idler Assembly into the headstock as described in this video is, IMO, a problem that's unique to PowerPro.

That is not the case. One of the first problems found after the introduction of the Mark 5 in 1954 was what I described in my previous post below.

The Idler Shaft Assembly can be a source of noise. The Idler Shaft Assembly in the first Mark 5's made in 1954 were only held in place by the clamping screw and nut to the Headstock Casting. This created a problem especially as the Sheaves needed to be relubricated and therefore more force needed as the speed is changed. Changing the speed could cause the entire Idler Shaft Assembly to move in and out of the Headstock Casting's mounting point.

It was the addition of the retainers that was first used to correct this problem. The Headstock Belt Cover Vent/Serial Number Plate from August 1954, shown below, shows damage which occurred when the Idler Shaft Assembly was pulled into the Headstock and the Hub began to rub on the plate.

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276340 Mark 5 Greenie Aug 54 Anniston AL.jpg (241.07 KiB) Viewed 23578 times