I purchased and attempted to install the new version (now includes the PowerPro Control Unit assembly, aka Power Supply) PowerPro Gen 1 to Gen 2 upgrade. I've had a lot of trouble with it. I had to return both the Gen 2 (extended length) quill feed pinion shaft and the Control Panel. Shopsmith confirmed both problems and sent replacements, which were in stock, but this accounted for a little over four weeks of down time. I just got those installed, now the machine exhibits a loud whine at speeds near 3450 RPM. My first thought was a bearing, but as I swept the speed up it gets quieter and is essentially normal again by about 4000 RPM and throughout the rest of the range. Similarly on the low end it is fine until the noise starts at about 3100 RPM, growing louder as the speed increases.
I reported the whine a couple of days ago to Shopsmith, I haven't heard anything back yet. After some troubleshooting I'm somewhere between 75 and 90% certain that the Gen 2 PowerPro Control Unit is at the heart of the problem. I've decided my best option is to replace the Gen 2 PowerPro Control Unit and Control Panel with the Gen 1 versions I removed at the beginning of the upgrade. That's not a trivial task but seems like the best next step. To my understanding, there is no compatibility between either combination of these Gen 1 and 2026 Gen 2 parts, in other words they must be swapped together as a set.
- David
PowerPro Gen 1 to Gen 2 Upgrade (New Version)
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Re: PowerPro Gen 1 to Gen 2 Upgrade (New Version)
David,
That is disappointing. Sorry this is happening. The PowerPro is a switched reluctance motor design from what I understand. There is a fair amount of literature that details how switched reluctance motor designs produce acoustic noise and vibration. Just searching for "switched reluctance motor" and "acoustic" will give you some background. A high pitched whine is often what these motors can produce. Significant effort must be put forth in their design to limit/mitigate this as I understand it. I posted about this before on the forum after researching this type of motor design (link below). Is it possible that the new/latest PowerPro has a different motor design that is better matched to the new power supply design? Maybe your older motor paired with a newer power supply is not matched well for this. Or, if not this, then is it possible that the new power supply is a cost reduced/more compact one with smaller capacitors on the power supply output? Just trying to help you troubleshoot. In parallel to contacting Shopsmith, I wonder if you might be able to directly contact someone at Teknatool and share your findings to get their input. IF they would respond, it may be faster as I am sure their engineering is well aware of this concern with this type of motor design. Just a thought.
viewtopic.php?p=265254&hilit=acoustic#p265254
That is disappointing. Sorry this is happening. The PowerPro is a switched reluctance motor design from what I understand. There is a fair amount of literature that details how switched reluctance motor designs produce acoustic noise and vibration. Just searching for "switched reluctance motor" and "acoustic" will give you some background. A high pitched whine is often what these motors can produce. Significant effort must be put forth in their design to limit/mitigate this as I understand it. I posted about this before on the forum after researching this type of motor design (link below). Is it possible that the new/latest PowerPro has a different motor design that is better matched to the new power supply design? Maybe your older motor paired with a newer power supply is not matched well for this. Or, if not this, then is it possible that the new power supply is a cost reduced/more compact one with smaller capacitors on the power supply output? Just trying to help you troubleshoot. In parallel to contacting Shopsmith, I wonder if you might be able to directly contact someone at Teknatool and share your findings to get their input. IF they would respond, it may be faster as I am sure their engineering is well aware of this concern with this type of motor design. Just a thought.
viewtopic.php?p=265254&hilit=acoustic#p265254
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Re: PowerPro Gen 1 to Gen 2 Upgrade (New Version)
I completed the 'downgrade' of installing the Gen 1 parts back into the headstock but leaving the Gen 2 fuse, thermal cutout, and long quill feed spindle. This eliminated the loud whine and restored normal Gen 1 operation.
While doing that transition back to near Gen 1 but still with the 2026 Gen 2 stuff, I tilted the motor, removing the lower belt and all motor load, and this also eliminated the loud whine. I unscientifically loaded the motor with my hand and a shop rag acting as a light brake on the pulley (to simulate the headstock load) and the loud noise returned. Increasing the load increased the noise volume.
So I think the reasonable conclusion at this time is that the sample of one 2026 Power Supply that I have is not compatible with the motor I have. I'm assuming that there is no chance the Control Panel could cause this, which I think is reasonable. For clarity, I have the early version Gen 1 motor with the mounting screws that were hidden under the motor pan. (There is a late Gen 1 version with the exposed mounting screws, similar or the same as Gen 2 motors.) That assumes only two versions of the Gen 1 motor, so in case there are more variants I bought this one in 2020 from SS as part of a DIY PP upgrade kit.
I can't think there of anything else I can or am willing to do on this without Shopsmith's engagement. The machine is working properly, but as a Gen 1. The silver lining is at least my Gen 1 was working when I embarked on this. This same 'upgrade' is Shopsmith's present answer for Gen 1's that have a Power Supply or Control Panel problem. (Per their last newsletter.)
- David
While doing that transition back to near Gen 1 but still with the 2026 Gen 2 stuff, I tilted the motor, removing the lower belt and all motor load, and this also eliminated the loud whine. I unscientifically loaded the motor with my hand and a shop rag acting as a light brake on the pulley (to simulate the headstock load) and the loud noise returned. Increasing the load increased the noise volume.
So I think the reasonable conclusion at this time is that the sample of one 2026 Power Supply that I have is not compatible with the motor I have. I'm assuming that there is no chance the Control Panel could cause this, which I think is reasonable. For clarity, I have the early version Gen 1 motor with the mounting screws that were hidden under the motor pan. (There is a late Gen 1 version with the exposed mounting screws, similar or the same as Gen 2 motors.) That assumes only two versions of the Gen 1 motor, so in case there are more variants I bought this one in 2020 from SS as part of a DIY PP upgrade kit.
I can't think there of anything else I can or am willing to do on this without Shopsmith's engagement. The machine is working properly, but as a Gen 1. The silver lining is at least my Gen 1 was working when I embarked on this. This same 'upgrade' is Shopsmith's present answer for Gen 1's that have a Power Supply or Control Panel problem. (Per their last newsletter.)
- David
Re: PowerPro Gen 1 to Gen 2 Upgrade (New Version)
Since the main difference between Gen 1 and a Gen 1 upgraded to Gen 2 is the User Interface (UI), I thought I would provide some observations to others that might be considering this.
1) Speed Chart Functionality - Chart functionality is vastly improved on Gen 2. There are 12 icons on the Gen 2 homescreen, you choose the tool you want and you are immediately into the sub-menu options. It is much faster and more intuitive than scrolling through the options and selecting or not selecting before going to the next level menu. I did find the UI bogged down a little after that first choice of tools, but I can't go back to confirm at present. For most tools I think only one sub-menu should be necessary.
2) Confirm - The Confirm functionality on Gen 2 is better, with one exception. The exception is on Gen 1 I select a speed, hit Confirm, and it is running. On Gen 2, I select a speed, hit Confirm, and I have to choose the speed again before it starts running. Like "are you sure?" Followed by "are you really sure?" Ridiculous. But the good news is that as long as I stay on that speed I can start and stop as many times as I wish without Confirming again, where on the Gen 1 I have to Confirm every time I start. The other improvement is that on Gen 2 if I select speed through the Chart (or Menu) functionality I don't have to Confirm at all. (I didn't test Favorites, which I think I would use a lot if my machine worked.)
3) Measured RPM - Also Ridiculous on Gen 2. If I'm changing RPM using the up/down feature the actual RPM display freezes, showing an incorrect RPM value until I release the up/down. Providing incorrect instrumentation is worse than not providing any.
4) Settings - Any time the machine is running I can select Settings and see several (12 I think) motor parameters. The thing is that most of these are constants, and completely useless to the user. Heatsink Temperature is about the only thing I'm interested in. And while Settings are displayed, the Stop button is not. Same with, IIRC, RPM. In particular because the Stop button is not available, I would advise against using this. Contrast Gen 1, I could see RPM, one of several parameters including Heatsink Temp, and the Stop button. I prefer the Gen 1 version.
Note - My Gen 2 is with the 2026 versions of the Power Supply and Control Panel, which are clearly different than earlier Gen 2. It is possible that not all of my observations are true of all Gen 2 machines.
- David
1) Speed Chart Functionality - Chart functionality is vastly improved on Gen 2. There are 12 icons on the Gen 2 homescreen, you choose the tool you want and you are immediately into the sub-menu options. It is much faster and more intuitive than scrolling through the options and selecting or not selecting before going to the next level menu. I did find the UI bogged down a little after that first choice of tools, but I can't go back to confirm at present. For most tools I think only one sub-menu should be necessary.
2) Confirm - The Confirm functionality on Gen 2 is better, with one exception. The exception is on Gen 1 I select a speed, hit Confirm, and it is running. On Gen 2, I select a speed, hit Confirm, and I have to choose the speed again before it starts running. Like "are you sure?" Followed by "are you really sure?" Ridiculous. But the good news is that as long as I stay on that speed I can start and stop as many times as I wish without Confirming again, where on the Gen 1 I have to Confirm every time I start. The other improvement is that on Gen 2 if I select speed through the Chart (or Menu) functionality I don't have to Confirm at all. (I didn't test Favorites, which I think I would use a lot if my machine worked.)
3) Measured RPM - Also Ridiculous on Gen 2. If I'm changing RPM using the up/down feature the actual RPM display freezes, showing an incorrect RPM value until I release the up/down. Providing incorrect instrumentation is worse than not providing any.
4) Settings - Any time the machine is running I can select Settings and see several (12 I think) motor parameters. The thing is that most of these are constants, and completely useless to the user. Heatsink Temperature is about the only thing I'm interested in. And while Settings are displayed, the Stop button is not. Same with, IIRC, RPM. In particular because the Stop button is not available, I would advise against using this. Contrast Gen 1, I could see RPM, one of several parameters including Heatsink Temp, and the Stop button. I prefer the Gen 1 version.
Note - My Gen 2 is with the 2026 versions of the Power Supply and Control Panel, which are clearly different than earlier Gen 2. It is possible that not all of my observations are true of all Gen 2 machines.
- David