Price Frustration

[ddvann79]

I'm a little ticked off right now so please pardon this rant. I feel like getting this off my chest.

Why the heck is this such an expensive hobby? That's rhetorical, so don't answer. I understand economics.

I pride myself on getting stuff on the cheap and being frugal but for the love of Pete, $300 for a good dado set? $100-$200 per saw blade? $150 for good router bits? $4,000 for a new SHOPSMITH! Holy rusted metal, Batman! Why is Walmart and Harbor Freight doing so well? Because they import from China where labor is cheap, quality is poor and tolerances are sloppy. How can they get away with it? Because I keep buying it! Why do I keep buying it? Because I can't afford $100 per saw blade! Ahhhh!:( My "blow money" budget for one month doesn't have room for the the tools and still have something left over for the wood!

OK, life requires money - I know. I'm blessed to have disposable income - I know! I'm lucky to have a little time for a hobby - I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW! But why do I have to love this hobby? Why couldn't I be satisfied with origami? A ream of paper would keep me happy for a month!

Seriously, has it always been this way? This is the second time I've gone through the process of collecting the necessities of a wood shop and it seems like it's more expensive this time around. Maybe I'm just more cost conscious now than I was in my early twenties but sometimes I feel like a dollar not only buys less now (inflation) but sellers want to push the envelope for what they can charge (greed)! Maybe I didn't know Delta was cheap crap 10 years ago. Maybe the availability of cheap tools makes decent tools look more expensive. Or maybe the truth stares at me in the mirror. It's my own greed and impatience that cause me to want the shop of my dreams right now. I know the years it will take to get there.

Sure, good quality costs more and lasts longer. But I don't want to rationalize overindulgence in any aspect of my life. If I can't afford a decent tool and I know the East Asia import is going to break and perform poorly, WHY EVEN BOTHER? I look to the future and fear that I could fritter away what should be 401k contributions on woodworking. What good is it to have a well-equipped shop and dine on Alpo in retirement, if there is such a thing? But if I'm spending my life working and not enjoying anything, I'm not really living. At the same time, if I feel sorry for myself for not being able to afford toys, what a sad, selfish life that is.

Time for me to practice the art of contentment and virtue of patience.

Thanks for listening. I better lay off the Rockler catalog for a while.

[holsgo]

I do feel your pain. I have spent the better part of a weekend trying to get a tap and die set made in the USA (USA sets tend to use HSS for the dies and taps and this is one set you do not want to go cheap with in case they break). The sets are well over $100 and into even higher ranges for both standard and metric. This hobby just costs me more even as I try and build my tools for this shopsmith to make life cheaper in the end.
PS...anyone looking to rid themselves of a usa made tap and die set?

[ryanbp01]

I'm a little ticked off right now so please pardon this rant. I feel like getting this off my chest.

Why the heck is this such an expensive hobby? That's rhetorical, so don't answer. I understand economics.

I pride myself on getting stuff on the cheap and being frugal but for the love of Pete, $300 for a good dado set? $100-$200 per saw blade? $150 for good router bits? $4,000 for a new SHOPSMITH! Holy rusted metal, Batman! Why is Walmart and Harbor Freight doing so well? Because they import from China where labor is cheap, quality is poor and tolerances are sloppy. How can they get away with it? Because I keep buying it! Why do I keep buying it? Because I can't afford $100 per saw blade! Ahhhh!:( My "blow money" budget for one month doesn't have room for the the tools and still have something left over for the wood!

OK, life requires money - I know. I'm blessed to have disposable income - I know! I'm lucky to have a little time for a hobby - I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW! But why do I have to love this hobby? Why couldn't I be satisfied with origami? A ream of paper would keep me happy for a month!

Seriously, has it always been this way? This is the second time I've gone through the process of collecting the necessities of a wood shop and it seems like it's more expensive this time around. Maybe I'm just more cost conscious now than I was in my early twenties but sometimes I feel like a dollar not only buys less now (inflation) but sellers want to push the envelope for what they can charge (greed)! Maybe I didn't know Delta was cheap crap 10 years ago. Maybe the availability of cheap tools makes decent tools look more expensive. Or maybe the truth stares at me in the mirror. It's my own greed and impatience that cause me to want the shop of my dreams right now. I know the years it will take to get there.

Sure, good quality costs more and lasts longer. But I don't want to rationalize overindulgence in any aspect of my life. If I can't afford a decent tool and I know the East Asia import is going to break and perform poorly, WHY EVEN BOTHER? I look to the future and fear that I could fritter away what should be 401k contributions on woodworking. What good is it to have a well-equipped shop and dine on Alpo in retirement, if there is such a thing? But if I'm spending my life working and not enjoying anything, I'm not really living. At the same time, if I feel sorry for myself for not being able to afford toys, what a sad, selfish life that is.

Time for me to practice the art of contentment and virtue of patience.

Thanks for listening. I better lay off the Rockler catalog for a while.

Hi ddvann:

Well, I do hope you feel better. What you're experiencing is being part of a niche market. Niche market prices are more elastic since they are considered "luxury items". You mention this this is the second time around you are collecting the necessities of setting up a new shop. When did you do this the first time and what did you do with those tools? That's why I chose to build up the tools I want or need while I'm still working so I won't have to when I'm retired. Remember you do have to deal with inflation- the natural rise in prices (including labor).

Shopsmith, in my humble opinion, has done an outstanding job in weathering the current economic situation. The foundries which supply castings for Shopsmith in Dayton were on their knees (or are out of business entirely) from the auto industry going under. The new Power-Pro technology costs money. Not only do they have bills to pay for their suppliers, but also should be able to show a profit. To be able to come out with an improvement in technology while trying to keep going is a truly admirable move on Shopsmith's part.

Like it or not, we as consumers are part of a global economy. If you want quality, you're going to have to pay for it. That goes for any product, either foreign or domestically made. U.S. producers are not necessarily to blame for going overseas. You may wish to check your local library for the documentary "Is Wal-Mart Good for America?" It's a real eye-opener for how retailers like Wal-Mart has changed the face of production in the U.S.

I have found that East Asian product quality has improved. For example, in my other hobby, model railroading, the quality of products has greatly improved over the last ten years. Attention to detail is definitely there. You easily pay the high prices you mention for high-quality locomotives, most of which are made in China. The cordless tools I own have not needed to be replaced since I have bought them. Plus, if you look at woodworking, how many tools you may have owned in the past were made in foreign countries such as Germany or Great Britain? I have purchased plenty of domestically produced products where recall notices have been issued due to product safety or poor quality.

BPR

[nuhobby]

There is a bright side but as you've seen there is a huge "leap of faith" going in.

Once I got a bunch of equipment, I started finding desirable "found wood" almost everywhere. One time I even had a wood bench vise stare me in the face as I drove by a nearby subdivision on "trash day." (The exact scavenging behavior that used to embarrass me when my dad did it.)

We're probably all here downsizing to some extent. While I did get the PowerPro, I no longer have a dado-blade, 4-jaw lathe-chuck, and several other goodies that I sold. I've got good alternate ways to attack those challenges now.

Everything said above is also true! Good reading/venting!

[ddvann79]

Ryan,

Model trains - now there's an "erector set" hobby I would LOVE to get into. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser and appraised a shopping center where a club met and stored their tracks/landscapes. I spent an hour with the owner who showed me around and most of the tracks were boxed up.

I was an econ major. I know what forces are at play but understanding doesn't lessen my frustration or grant me patience!

As for my previous shop tools, they were burned up in a fire the night before Christmas Eve in 2005. No wait, that had to be in 2004 because I was in Iraq for Christmas 2005. An electrical fire took out the whole shop. The biggest tool I lost was my Delta table saw that I got from Lowe's for $99. The purchase alone taught me a lot about researching current quality. I purchased based on the brand name that sponsored This Old House back then. Dad's SS was not functional at that time so I purchased all the conventional power tools it would have replaced. I built a chest of drawers, mission-style canopy bed, some shelves and odd and ends. Dad had scrounged a sizeble stock of red oak from a trailer company that used it in their trailer floors, not to mention an old house we tore down several years prior.

At the time, I had been out of the Navy for a couple of years, gotten married and was finishing college. I lived in an apartment so all my tools were camped out at the folks place. The worst part of that fire was that we lost all my dad's tools, his dad's tools and the saddles Dad had made. That made me sick. Mom thought I would be upset about my stuff but it paled in comparison to the generations of family history lost.

East Asian tools get a bad rap. They were the scapegoat for my rant but there are some pretty crappy things made in the US too. (I'd be very happy with a Makita cordless set.) And BTW, I'm not knocking Shopsmith, Inc. (thanks for the forum hosting and replacement parts, guys). Compared to a Powermatic tablesaw, Jet drill press, Rikon bandsaw, and A Powermatic joiner, etc., the SS is a DEAL! It's simply a fact that quality is pricey. Actually, that's not always true but quality and price are highly correlated.

Truth be told, I think part of it is a generational problem (not to mention a human problem). I'm part of a technology-heavy generation that is accustomed to instantaneous gratification at a relatively low cost. As much as I like to think that I'm different by virtue of my rearing, I'm really just as guilty as the rest. I probably just recognize it more than my peers.

[JPG]

Ryan,

Model trains - now there's an "erector set" hobby I would LOVE to get into. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser and appraised a shopping center where a club met and stored their tracks/landscapes. I spent an hour with the owner who showed me around and most of the tracks were boxed up.

I was an econ major. I know what forces are at play but understanding doesn't lessen my frustration or grant me patience!

As for my previous shop tools, they were burned up in a fire the night before Christmas Eve in 2005. No wait, that had to be in 2004 because I was in Iraq for Christmas 2005. An electrical fire took out the whole shop. The biggest tool I lost was my Delta table saw that I got from Lowe's for $99. The purchase alone taught me a lot about researching current quality. I purchased based on the brand name that sponsored This Old House back then. Dad's SS was not functional at that time so I purchased all the conventional power tools it would have replaced. I built a chest of drawers, mission-style canopy bed, some shelves and odd and ends. Dad had scrounged a sizeble stock of red oak from a trailer company that used it in their trailer floors, not to mention an old house we tore down several years prior.

At the time, I had been out of the Navy for a couple of years, gotten married and was finishing college. I lived in an apartment so all my tools were camped out at the folks place. The worst part of that fire was that we lost all my dad's tools, his dad's tools and the saddles Dad had made. That made me sick. Mom thought I would be upset about my stuff but it paled in comparison to the generations of family history lost.

East Asian tools get a bad rap. They were the scapegoat for my rant but there are some pretty crappy things made in the US too. (I'd be very happy with a Makita cordless set.) And BTW, I'm not knocking Shopsmith, Inc. (thanks for the forum hosting and replacement parts, guys). Compared to a Powermatic tablesaw, Jet drill press, Rikon bandsaw, and A Powermatic joiner, etc., the SS is a DEAL! It's simply a fact that quality is pricey. Actually, that's not always true but quality and price are highly correlated.

Truth be told, I think part of it is a generational problem (not to mention a human problem). I'm part of a technology-heavy generation that is accustomed to instantaneous gratification at a relatively low cost. As much as I like to think that I'm different by virtue of my rearing, I'm really just as guilty as the rest. I probably just recognize it more than my peers.

This too shall pass.

I went online to look for a decent countersink bit which I will also use on metal! Amongst Lowes, Ace, Do it Best, Home Depot, only Home Depot(Surprise!!!!!) had one they identified as HSS. Cost twice as much as the others! Still quite reasonable at under $10. Three sizes 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 all the same price. Guess where I be going to buy!

[beeg]

Dalton, think of it this way. Your gathering what you'll need for when ya retire.

[jimsjinx]

I have been a woodchuck of some sort for 37 years now. I have had a shop in California,Arizona, and now in the deep south. I could make a good living during most of that time. I have built cabinets and furniture, as well as restoration work on antique woodwork/furniture. I have a complete "flow over" stripping system for removing old finishes. I'm blessed with a pretty complete medium shop. Nowdays, I'm sick with worry about shop money. I can't buy hardly any new tool or replacement parts, without burying the cost in a job. I used to just keep a cookie jar account for shop stuff. My stripper went from $35 a five gallon jug, to $67 a jug! The 3 6foot poplar posts I've been posting about, were $258 bucks from a sawmill. I get a dozen calls a week for sofa repairs when folks buy these $200 couches from Taiwan factorys. It costs more to repair them than they were new! Be glad it's a hobby, my woodchuck brother, and not how you feed your family. In 2 years, outa 12 of us shops around here, 4 are left, and I know one of the best ones are closing the doors soon. Scarey. jimsjinx

[robinson46176]

My "primary" hobbies are:
Woodworking
Horses
Old tractors
Genealogy
Eating out
Not a cheap one in the bunch.
Thank god I sold that boat...
Lesser hobbies are:
Shooting and guns
Leather work
Gardening
Blacksmithing
Antiques
Travel
Camping
Cursing winter...

[Ed in Tampa]

I believe the problem is the result of annual pay increases, those increases that come just because someone was there last year.

If salaries are increased without an increase in production or a lowering of production cost the price of the object goes up.

The problem is the American worker has fallen into the trap and it is almost impossible to get out. It is what I call the chinese money spiral.

Think about it you make $2 an hour and bread cost $0.25 then you get raise after raise and you now making $20 an hour but bread cost $2.50 what have you gained. Nothing!

The only thing is you have priced yourself out of the world market because someone somewhere is getting paid $2 an hour making $0.25 bread and that $0.25 bread is selling in countries where bread made in them is $2.50. However it is selling for $2 because of the cost of shipping and profits taken by everyone that touched it.

In the years to come this is going to be a serious problem. Many are being priced out of the hobby today.