Power Station Noise

[dusty]

This thread is being created to deal with the subject brought to light in another thread.

The Power Station does tend to be quite noisy and frankly I don't know if it was always that way or not. I have two and they both seem equally noisy.

While reading the thread referenced above, I decided to open a Power Station and just run the speed up and down to see what I could see and to check for any obvious sources of noise (high speed).

I found none but I did notice that the variator moves back and forth on the shaft as a function of speed and that the noise is most prevalent when the variator is back on the shaft.

Could it be that the noise is the result of the variator spinning against the housing. Maybe there needs to be a thin spacer on that shaft to limit how far back the variator can move.

[moose]

Dusty, I know nothing about the power station however, perhaps a link belt would run quieter and a bit more smooth.

[JPG]

Dusty, I know nothing about the power station however, perhaps a link belt would run quieter and a bit more smooth.

They come in 5/8" size?

[JPG]

. . .

I found none but I did notice that the variator moves back and forth on the shaft as a function of speed and that the noise is most prevalent when the variator is back on the shaft.

Could it be that the noise is the result of the variator spinning against the housing. Maybe there needs to be a thin spacer on that shaft to limit how far back the variator can move.

What direction is 'back'? Towards the interior end or the outer end on the shaft?

As always, the tension on the motor belt determines the extent of movement(along with the control) of the variator. The higher the motor belt rides , the further the variator moves towards the outer end on the shaft. At this position, the stresses and motion resultant from the sloppy fit of the control 'slide' accentuates the movement side to side of the variator. This 'play' causes the belts to flap around contributing to the noise and the ensueing in and out movement of the sliding variator. Keep in mind both the center flange and the entire variator moves.

Shimming the slide helps the noise and flopping, but does not eliminate it. I think even if the slide were rock solid, the variator would continue to wander due to belt dimensional irregularities which will cycle due to the presence of two belts with varying dimensions around their circumferences.

The design is elegant in its simplicity(although understanding it is counter intuitive), but smooth is not one of its attributes.

P.S. If by 'back' you mean towards the interior end of the shaft, in out movement of the variator could cause it to bump into the hard end of the shaft. That is a symptom, not a 'cause'. A spacer/washer would make it 'bump' with less motion of the variator(i.e. sooner/more often) .

[tomsalwasser]

[quote="JPG40504"]
As always, the tension on the motor belt determines the extent of movement(along with the control) of the variator. The higher the motor belt rides , the further the variator moves towards the outer end on the shaft. At this position, the stresses and motion resultant from the sloppy fit of the control 'slide' accentuates the movement side to side of the variator. This 'play' causes the belts to flap around contributing to the noise and the ensueing in and out movement of the sliding variator. Keep in mind both the center flange and the entire variator moves.

The design is elegant in its simplicity(although understanding it is counter intuitive), but smooth is not one of its attributes.]

Good stuff JPG, thank you. My power station is noisy only when changing speeds. It becomes smooth and quiet as soon as I lock down the speed control. If I'm reading your description correctly, this is normal, right? This is important because I'm waiting to know all is well before I give ebay feedback on the power station. Then I want to buy a caster set

Best,
Tom

[dusty]

On both my Power Station and Crafters Station the greatest noise level occurs while changing speeds. On that we seem to agree.

The drive belts (motor belts) on mine do not flap like the other belts. It is the drive belts that make the majority of the noise. The tension on this belt is controlled by the variator and can be changed only by changing speed.

The noise is most prevalent when the variator is back on the shaft (high speed). That is when the drive belt has the most slack.

The motor belt limits movement of the variator on the shaft only in that it can be stretched just so tight. How tight is effected by how/where the motor is mounted AND how you much you tension that belt when installing the motor.

Where the variator rides on the shaft is really a function of 1) speed setting and 2) where the motor pulley is positioned on the motor shaft. Pulling that pulley away from the motor will move the variator outward on the shaft. CAUTION: Move it too far and at low speed the variator will contact the chassis and then you really have noise.

The motor belt gets tensioned at low speed (when motor belt tension is the highest).

Now, having said all of that, I must go read the manual. My recollection is that the manual is rather silent on this subject.

PS: I have now done something that I hardly ever do. I read the instruction manual for the Power Station. Belt tensioning is NOT COVERED. There is a statement that says basically - This item comes pre-assembled and all you have to do is add the legs.

[JPG]

As far as 'is the noise typical' I think we all agree yes.

As Dusty said, the position of the motor pulley(in/out on the motor shaft) has an effect on the position the variator assumes. The best I have been able to determine is that the distance between the center line of the two fixed pulleys should be 1 1/16". This was arrived at by careful measuring of the variator and the range of motion of the center flange.

At low speed, the motor belt is riding high in the inner flanges of the variator. The output belt is pulled down into the outer pulley. Tension wise this should be at or very near the point of the belt bottoming out on the ridge of the center flange. At that condition, the output pulley should align directly with the output shaft pulley(the belt should run 'straight to the center' of both pulleys). At this same condition, the motor pulley should also line up with the inner flanges of the variator. This is the 1 1/16 " separation mentioned above. Since the output tension(and amount the output belt is pulled down into the outer flange) is now controlled by the motor belt tension(the tighter the motor belt the further into the inner flanges the motor belt is forced and the more the output belt rises in the outer flanges).

Therefore it is in this condition that the motor belt tension is adjusted, and the desired result is that the OUTPUT belt just bottoms out in the outer flange.

Once the motor belt tension is set, when the speed lever is moved to high, the motor belt should be drawn down into the inner flange to very near the bottoming point and the output belt should rise to very near the top of the flanges.

The variator will shift in/out on its shaft 5/16" between the fast and slow extremes. At slow speed, it will be 5/16" further in from the open end of the shaft than when at high speed. This movement is due to the center flange actually remaining stationary while the outer flange(s) shift in/out on the shaft as the speed is adjusted.

The only things 'adjustable' are the location of the output shaft pulley on that shaft, the in/out position of the motor pulley on the motor shaft and the distance of the motor shaft to the variator shaft(motor belt tension).

I realize all this may be creating headaches(and illustrates why nothing is mentioned re belt tension procedure in the manual, since improper tension mucks up the system), so time permitting, I will take some pix to illustrate later today or tomorrow.


Go Cats!

Go Cats!

[JPG]

I started out with good intentions of taking some pix, but got sidetracked when I decided to check the condition of the oil wick for the sleeve bearings.

At this point the motor is apart and no pix have been taken.

The oil hole plugs were unusual in that they were 90 degrees apart. The output shaft end was vertical(up), and the other end horizontal(?????). The vertical(shaft end) was extremely dry(took a LOT of oil), but the horizontal(back end) would not take ANY! I decided it needed blowing out any way so I took it apart. The non-thirsty end had been allowed to dry out completely and the wadding was hard, separated and non absorbent. Currently I be trying to figure out how to get the bearing retainer back in.

I think the 90 degree difference in the oiling hole orientation is unusual(wrong?). I am at the mercy of the e-bay seller from whom I obtained it. As I understand it, he purchased is as a pile of parts and assembled it prior to selling it. A lot of things were not 'right'!

Dusty are yours that way?

[dusty]

I started out with good intentions of taking some pix, but got sidetracked when I decided to check the condition of the oil wick for the sleeve bearings.

At this point the motor is apart and no pix have been taken.

The oil hole plugs were unusual in that they were 90 degrees apart. The output shaft end was vertical(up), and the other end horizontal(?????). The vertical(shaft end) was extremely dry(took a LOT of oil), but the horizontal(back end) would not take ANY! I decided it needed blowing out any way so I took it apart. The non-thirsty end had been allowed to dry out completely and the wadding was hard, separated and non absorbent. Currently I be trying to figure out how to get the bearing retainer back in.

I think the 90 degree difference in the oiling hole orientation is unusual(wrong?). I am at the mercy of the e-bay seller from whom I obtained it. As I understand it, he purchased is as a pile of parts and assembled it prior to selling it. A lot of things were not 'right'!

Dusty are yours that way?

It has not been long since I made the same discovery. I was a member of this forum when I did. I had just purchased the Crafters Station and was working to put it back into service. I have three motors in my shop that have oil cups.

Let it be an ALERT. A RED FLAG WARNING.

If you have a motor with oil cups, it needs to be oiled periodically. If you don't, the day will come when your best option is a new motor.

Two of my motors are Emersons (Crafters Station and Power Station). The oil cups on both ends are located so as to be at high noon when properly installed. The attached picture shows the oil cup at 6 o'clock but the motor is on the bench. The oil cup has a plug to keep out all but oil. Mine are yellow.

[ATTACH]12421[/ATTACH]

If you haven't oiled your motors lately, this weekend would be a good time to go do it. Bushings will run just so long without oil.

[billmayo]

I started out with good intentions of taking some pix, but got sidetracked when I decided to check the condition of the oil wick for the sleeve bearings.

At this point the motor is apart and no pix have been taken.

The oil hole plugs were unusual in that they were 90 degrees apart. The output shaft end was vertical(up), and the other end horizontal(?????). The vertical(shaft end) was extremely dry(took a LOT of oil), but the horizontal(back end) would not take ANY! I decided it needed blowing out any way so I took it apart. The non-thirsty end had been allowed to dry out completely and the wadding was hard, separated and non absorbent. Currently I be trying to figure out how to get the bearing retainer back in.

I think the 90 degree difference in the oiling hole orientation is unusual(wrong?). I am at the mercy of the e-bay seller from whom I obtained it. As I understand it, he purchased is as a pile of parts and assembled it prior to selling it. A lot of things were not 'right'!

Dusty are yours that way?

Can you let us know what you used to replace the wadding and where you obtained it. Did you use oil or a lite grease mixed in the wadding? Many smaller electric motors still use bushings and wadding for motor lubrication. I find the recess circle for the wadding is normally round but never close to any available bearing size.

It is very easy to rotate an end plate on any motor with a 56 type mounting (welded to the motor body). Also easy to change. I use a center punch to mark the motor body and end plates at one of the bolt locations prior to disassembling of any motor. 2 punches each on body and end plate at the shaft output side. One punch on end plate and body at wire end of motor.

When I get my Power Station back this week, I want to try a 5/8" Power Twist (link) belt (http://www.amazon.com/PowerTwist-Plus-V ... B001ELV6GQ) on it as I have been very successful using link belts to reduce noise and vibration on various machinery. Rubbing on the 10ER way tubes prevented me from trying the 1/2" link belt with the Speed Changer on the 10ER machine.

A picture of any problem area would be greatly appreciated and help Formum members respond quickly.