Bruce
I am considering the purchase of a biscuit joiner. Does anyone have an opinion about the Shopsmith joiner? It seems to me a handheld unit would be more useful. Also, would you even recommend a handheld joiner? I have heard about problems with alignment and biscuits swelling and becoming visible.
chiroindixon
I've a Shopsmith biscuit joiner and while I use it, I think I'd trade in a minute for a good hand held. Norm Abrams has no problems.
Cost of a good hand held is about the same as the Shopsmith. If worried about alignment, then make a jig for it or buy a premade from a good company like Woodhaven. They are on the Internet. Brad Witt's new design for his biscuit joiner is on the cover of new catalog.
The other less costly option for someone who has a decent router table is to buy a biscuit cutting bit and do with the router.
Paying attention is paramount. Remember it's the operator, that's key. To avoid goofup's I picked up David Marks' habit of marking pieces with chalk That way, you really have to work to mismatch the good faces and other mistakes.
While I love my Shopsmiths', there are times when some of the well intentioned accessories aren't the best solution, and often a PITA to use. A tool like that gets little use.
Ed in Tampa
I have the Shopsmith biscuit jointer and I like it.
I also have access to a Lamello biscuit jointer and have used it and like it.
Here is how I see it, to use the hand held you have to have the wood clamped/anchored down so it won't move and then you bring the handheld into contact and make the cut.
With the SS biscuit you just bring the wood into contact and make the cut. Admittedly you have to be able to move the wood.
That brings me to my conclusion, the only time I prefer the handheld over the SS is when taking the wood to the SS is problematic. Other than that I think the SS biscuit is probably a better idea.
With the SS you can be real precise in your cuts, you don't have to have a bunch of jigs and such to hold either the jointer or the wood and I think dust collection is better on the SS.
Let me put it this way I use the SS buscuit jointer far more often than I do Lamello handheld of course the SS is mine and the Lamello is the son in laws but he lets me store it for him about 90 percent of the time. :-)
Now to the question whether to use a biscuit or not.
Yes I have heard of the problem where biscuits telegraph through to the surface, where after some time you can see the outline of the biscuit in the panel. Norm of New Yankee Workshop fame adressed this issue saying he only biscuits on thicker wood. I personally never had any problem with biscuits or dowels but I have seen pictures.
Both the glue manufacture and clamp manufacture have greatly improved their products. With the new Gel glues and poly glues and new style clamps you can edge to edge joint a panel buildup with perfect alignment and not use any form of aligment like biscuits, dowels, splines, tongue and groove and etc. Glue manufacture claim nearly the same seam strength using just glue versus biscuit, spline or dowel. Then with improvements in pocket hole jigs I don't use biscuits nearly as much as I did.
tchwrtr55
I have had very limited exposure to biscuits, most not favorable. I still prefer dowels. The SS is about the best unit I've had my hands on for doweling (i.e. Horizontal Boring feature, no extra attachments). I used to borrow a plate jointer, in a pinch. I have not had to get it since the SS got here.
I have heard the plate jointer (on a whole) is the most hazardous tool in the wood shop.
chiroindixon
While the debate can go on about biscuit joiners, the horizonal boring machine is kick ass. I personally think it's the best of the five features in a Shopsmith.
It really paid off when I set it up to do the Rockler Three in One Transitional Bed. Getting those crib rails aligned and bored correctly was a snap.
Like an earlier comment, it is a matter whether the tool is best moved on the workpiece or the workpiece is best moved on the tool. Cases can favor one way or another, or be a toss up. Whatever feels safe and comfortable.
I still have a hand held on my want list.....
reible
Might as well throw my 2 cents in.
I have the shopsmith unit as well as 3 hand held units. One I keep set up at 45 deg another is one that does small biscuits and the third for normal operations.
I got rid of my doweling jigs when these machines came out and I've never want to go back to the good old days.... I still remember fitting parts together only to have the hydrolic pressure crack the wood... yea then they came out with fluted dowels... or the hole was not at 90 degs or off by a 1/32" and now you have to try to get the parts to fit together and then that one dowel is stuck after the dry fit... heck yea I miss dowels. (sorry but this is my 2 cents).
The shopsmith works well on some projects but then some projects are easier on a handheld. If you can own both. If I had only one it would be the handheld.
Now for the best of both world so to speak you use the biscuits to keep the alignment and the kreg pocket hole system to pull it all together. If you haven't tried it do so... and of course it does lend itself to all projects.
Ed
Anonymous
I agree that the combination of biscuits for alignment and pocket screws for holding power is ideal. I used this method to assemble a blanket chest that was fabricated with frame and panel construction.
Bruce
Thanks for all the replies. Your opinions are always appreciated. I decided to purchase a Kreg pocket hole jig. Even though it's not perfect (the pockets aren't easily hidden), it makes a strong joint. Another plus is that if you don't use glue, the joint can be disassembled if desired. Also, I didn't realize until I purchased the jig and read the manual (yes, I really read the manual :) ) that Kreg sells plugs in different wood species that you insert in the pocket and sand flush to make a nice clean presentation. I haven't yet priced the plugs.
Bruce
Spike13
You can easily make your own plugs with the wood your are using on your project rather than purchasing pre-cut plugs. Invest in some plug cutters, Shopsmith set item 522477 or a set of your choosing. You will find they will blend in more with your project when you use the same wood. You already have the MKV to do the project! You invested in the MKV to do woodworking, use it to it's full capabilities.:)
Bruce
Good idea. Why didn't I think of it? ;)
scottss
I used to use biscuits, it was a simple way to join two boards. But with the glues today it is not needed. As for Norm he quit using biscuits when he found that they where leaving a depression in the wood. Horizontal boring is a craftsman favorite and not to tuff with the shopsmith. Kregg pocked jig works great if not seen (face frames ect).
reible
scottss wroteI used to use biscuits, it was a simple way to join two boards. But with the glues today it is not needed. As for Norm he quit using biscuits when he found that they where leaving a depression in the wood. Horizontal boring is a craftsman favorite and not to tuff with the shopsmith. Kregg pocked jig works great if not seen (face frames ect).
As I recall the story was that a friend of his had seen the problem "...
you could see the faint outline of the bisquit present under the finish..."
Norm has since started to put the bisquits slightly below the center line....
Check out his website and search for bisquits....
I personally have never seen this problem in anything I have built. Is anyone here seeing it? How about a url that talks about it?
You are right about glues being better now then years ago but then when I was taking some woodworking classes one test we had was to glue two pieces together and the teacher got to brake the joint... if it broke on the glue you failed and that was only 41 years ago.
Ed
robg
Has anyone actually ever seen a biscuit impression in a finished piece of work? I agree that it could happen . . . but so could a screw impression if the screw got too close to the edge.
Anonymous
batg4 wroteI am considering the purchase of a biscuit joiner. Does anyone have an opinion about the Shopsmith joiner? It seems to me a handheld unit would be more useful. Also, would you even recommend a handheld joiner? I have heard about problems with alignment and biscuits swelling and becoming visible.
Go to
http://www.omalleytools.com and check this one out .it is fantastic
dusty
I'm still using a desk and bookcase that I built in an early 50's woodshop class and it was put together butt joints and hot glue but I don't want to go back to that. I use biscuits and a Ryobi biscuit jointer that I've had for a long time.
Incidently, I used some brads the other day and they show too; at least the ones that weren't installed correctly do.
Greenvilleguy
Interesting that this discussion about biscuit depressions has come up. One of the Wood working magazines (can't remember which one) talked about this in the current issue.
Their explanation was that the biscuit absorbs mositure and creates a "bump", then you sand it flat. When the mositure drys, the depression is left. They suggested when biscuits are only needed for alignment, not to apply glue to them so they won't swell in the first place.
And no, I have never actually witnessed this happened.
mindpilot
The only time I get out the handheld is for big pieces; I recently built a TV stand from 3/4 plywood. Instead of trying to make a dado for the not-quite-three-quarter-inch-thick plywood, I used biscuits. Got a nice strong joint that was almost self-aligning to 90 degrees.
The down side of the handheld is you have to be working on a perfectly flat surface to maintain alignment.
Biscuits are supposed to swell--that's part of what makes them work. If they show, it's most likely because they weren't centered across the thickness of the board.
Edited to add: My most recent cabinet-making instructor was adamant about adequate cure times and letting pieces acclimate to current ambient conditions before proceeding to the next step. That may be a solution to the depression issue but obviously allowing two or three days for glue to cure isn’t always practical.
paulmcohen
tchwrtr55 wroteI have heard the plate jointer (on a whole) is the most hazardous tool in the wood shop.
I agree thougth I am not sure it is true, in 30+ years of woodworking the only time my fingers were in contact with a moving blade was the Shopsmith plate jointer. Becauses of its excellent design the blade retracted before I got really hurt. I find the pins don't really hold the wood enough. Now I use the miter fence AND a stop block to hold the word.
I would trade it i a second for a good hand-held device.
brucethecook
I have 2 older model 10 shopsmiths with the exposed belts will the Shopsmith Biscuit Joiner 555320 fit these? One of the units was passed sown from my older brother. I have been around it my whole life, but just now getting serious about my woodworking.
recurvearcher
I have the SS unit and like it.Great for edge to edge joints. Easy to use. Only problem I had was the blade throwing a tooth. I watched Nick's Saw Dust Session on Jointing Midboard, but have never attemped it.I think I would barrow a hand held if I had to use biscuits midboard.
