Osorio Verdict Upheld On Appeal; CPSC Votes On Table Saw Rule-Making

algale · Post by **algale** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:37 pm

Those who have an interest in such things (pro or con) may wish to read the opinion of the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit, upholding the verdict in the Osorio v. Ryobi table saw lawsuit.

Here's the link: http://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/get ... -1824P.01A

In other news, CPSC voted unanimously to move forward with drafting new mandatory table saw safety standards. http://www.cpsc.gov/PR/adler10052011.pdf

athomas01 · Post by **athomas01** » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:32 pm

wow... Had no idea this was even in the works... going to be expensive I suspect...

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:51 am

I fear that this is a bad day for the industry and for the home hobby woodworker who uses a table saw. The US Government teaming with lawyers who are out to make a buck are again going to impose restrictions that will cost all of us dearly.

The day is already coming when very few participate in the trades at a non-professional level. This is partially due to the fact that many schools no longer teach industrial arts but the rising cost of equipment required to do so also contributes. It is cheaper to buy than to build.

This is what happens when "Big Brother" looks out for our best interests.

Please guys/gals, use your safety gear when working in the shop. Do not give Mr Gass more ammunition to be used in his efforts.

algale · Post by **algale** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:40 am

dusty wrote: The day is already coming when very few participate in the trades at a non-professional level.

Not if the check-out lines at my local Home Depot and Lowe's are any indication!

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:01 am

algale wrote:Not if the check-out lines at my local Home Depot and Lowe's are any indication!

Did you notice the number of Table Saws that were on display?:(

algale · Post by **algale** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:12 am

JPG40504 wrote:Did you notice the number of Table Saws that were on display?:(

I didn't count when I was there but there were several. On their website they list 18 different models. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZa ... ogId=10053 of which 8 are available in store. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZa ... reoption=1 Based on the "check availability" feature, I counted at least 42 saws among these 8 models in current inventory in my nearest store.

On a related note, FWW just posted an interesting Q&A with Gass. http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/415 ... w-verdicts

jm51 · Post by **jm51** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:01 am

This might work to Shopsmiths advantage.

If it happens that table saws are no longer offered for sale, then the SS becomes a 4 in 1 machine but purchasers will still be able to buy arbors and sawblades for their pre-legislation machine.

One big reason I got the tracksaw was a post from an experienced woodworker who got a painful kickback injury to his stomach from a sheet of thin laminate.

Does Sawstop eliminate kickback 100%?

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:26 am

I won't re-state my low opinion of the ilk of Mr. Gass and I do suspect that the case will "fuel" a high price of "gass".

I do though want to point out a couple of examples of other things that were expected to price items off of the market but didn't.
One was when they started putting chain brakes, anti-kick-back chains and items like Homelite's bar tip guard on chainsaws. Today chainsaws "are" safer and still available and at low prices.
Another was all of the dire predictions that we would be unable to mow our yards when safety requirements called for brakes and safety starting devices on common lawnmowers. Again today they are safer and we survived the change. Again you can walk into Wally-World today and still buy a very inexpensive lawnmower.
Similar fears have been rampant over many years every time major changes have been required of auto makers...
I do think that particular table-saw case has been a case of stampeding stupidity and is "just wrong" and sets a terrible precedent but like the situations listed above and many others we will survive this too...
That makes it hard for me to get too scared by this. For one last thing, at my age I have probably bought my last new table-saw and likely my last new Shopsmith. That, right or wrong, also tends to dampen my level of concern.

.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:28 am

What we do not hear/read in any of these articles is what actions do they intend to impose upon equipment already in the work shop.

If the requirements (restrictions) only apply to saws manufactured at some future date - we as Shopsmith current owners will not be effected (unless we want to purchase a Shopsmith later). However, Shopsmith could be adversely effected and that might have an impact on availability of future support.

If some sort of retrofit is going to be mandated, I don't know what the result might be. However, I do not believe this is possible.

algale · Post by **algale** » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:04 am

dusty wrote:What we do not hear/read in any of these articles is what actions do they intend to impose upon equipment already in the work shop.

If the requirements (restrictions) only apply to saws manufactured at some future date - we as Shopsmith current owners will not be effected (unless we want to purchase a Shopsmith later). However, Shopsmith could be adversely effected and that might have an impact on availability of future support.

If some sort of retrofit is going to be mandated, I don't know what the result might be. However, I do not believe this is possible.

Dusty,

This is what I have gleaned from CPSC's website over the years. CPSC rule making (which is what they are proposing to do) applies to things manufactured after the effective date of the rule. Thus the rule will have no impact on anything you already own and there will be no mandatory retrofit for items already in the possession of end users -- i.e. consumers.

CPSC can issue recalls. A recall, however, only binds a manufacturer and distributor to allow consumers who want to return the product to do so. I did this recently with a Ryobi drill that was recalled. Nobody came to my basement to get my Ryobi drill and nobody is going to try to come into your garage, shop or basement and try forcibly to recall or take your 10e, 10er, Mark 5, Mark V, Mark VII or Mark 7.

Also, it is unclear whether CPSC will attempt to regulate multi-function tools like the Shopsmith at all. IIRC, the current voluntary standard published by UL that CPSC would be replacing applies only to fixed or permanent table saws, not multi-function tools (even if a function is table saw). I suppose it is possible they will decide to look at multi-function tools, but I think that might require them to start the process over of seeing how many people have been injured by multi-function tools to see if the problem is severe enough to justify the action.

Just my $0.02.

Al