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New Shopsmith DC-6000 Dust Collector

dusty

dusty wrote
DLB wrote As discussed earlier in this thread I had intended to buy the upgrade kit until I received incorrect information from CS indicating that the kit did not include a fan/impeller. I compounded CS' error for them by reporting that information here. At the time the introductory/sale pricing ended we were in the dark as to the actual content of the kit. I'm happy to report that SS CS has made this right for me by offering to honor the original introductory pricing special on the upgrade kit. If others were impacted by the incorrect content description it might be worthwhile to contact CS and explain the situation. SS CS (Denise) seemed well aware of both the absence of information on the web site at the time of the sale and of the timing of the misinformation and corrected information.

I didn't ask for this resolution. I had made the recommendation to CS that they place the item back on sale. Which I still think would be the best choice, but perhaps is not practical for the MS.

Note - Upgrade kits are backorder, or were last week when I ordered.

- David
My order, previously back ordered, is now in shipping channels.

No longer in shipping channels. It is in my shop, unpackaged and ready to install. I now need to dismantle the DC-3300 and make it ready for installation. Can't do that today and probably not tomorrow due to scheduling conflicts but soon. I took some pictures but they add nothing to those already posted here.

Delivered a day earlier than projected.

Now...what to do with the old parts.

ssuel

I have completed my DC3300 to DC6000 upgrade. My original DC3300 was purchased new in1996 and still had the original motor and blower. I did add a mid size hood to my original DC3300 about 15 years ago. It took longer to do the deep clean on the remaining DC3300 parts than it did taking the old motor and blower out. The upgrade process was easy to follow using the ShopSmith provided instructions. It took me about 1-1/2 hours to complete. The new motor is less noisy.

Last year I bought a second DC3300 for $75 used and I put the same mid-sized hood on it too. I don’t have any way to measure the suction volume,but when I use my hand (I know unscientific) I don’t feel a huge difference when placing the two side-by-side and running both at the same time. Next time I am running the table saw I plan on using the DC3300 and seeing how well it does on the same length of cut vs the upgraded DC6000. I’ll report back here my observations when I complete the task. Heat index is expected to be extremely high the next several days

One other thing…. While performing the upgrade one has to remove the ShopSmith provided three-way inlet. I went thru my accumulated assortment of misfit dust collection adapters and found a Woodcraft Woodriver y-shape splitter. Two were 2-1/2 inch and the larger opening fit snugly into the new retrofitted larger DC6000 provided by ShopSmith in the upgrade kit. So this Woodriver adapter will not fit the DC3300 inlet with the 3 way inlet removed. Not sure I would gain any added suction. Just found it interesting that a larger misfit dust collection adapter did fit the new DC 6000

Update - So on 8/1/21 I did the table saw rip cut test comparing the DC 6000 upgrade to the second DC 3000 for dust control. All ports were open and I ripped the same board. Used the exact same hose too. The dust pickup looked the same to me. So for me the only advantage for buying the DC6000 upgrade was retiring a 1996 1/2 hp motor with a less noisy motor, the introductory price of $279.99, and the $30.00 gift card. I have always been loyal to ShopSmith and overall I am okay with my purchase of the upgrade. If my opinion changes with more use I’ll post an update

DLB

dusty wrote No longer in shipping channels. It is in my shop, unpackaged and ready to install. I now need to dismantle the DC-3300 and make it ready for installation. Can't do that today and probably not tomorrow due to scheduling conflicts but soon. I took some pictures but they add nothing to those already posted here.

Delivered a day earlier than projected.

Now...what to do with the old parts.

From previously posted pictures I guess the parts are partially assembled, but if at all possible would you post a picture of the new motor data plate? I'm still wondering if the HP claims are apples-to-apples, and about the 1-1/2HP on 8 Amps concept. Some part of this remains a mystery.

There may be a market for some of the old parts on ebay. I saw a recent sale of a motor, I think it was somewhere near $100 plus shipping. And impellers remain on the SS list of most frequently bought parts.

- David

dusty

DLB wrote
dusty wrote
No longer in shipping channels. It is in my shop, unpackaged and ready to install. I now need to dismantle the DC-3300 and make it ready for installation. Can't do that today and probably not tomorrow due to scheduling conflicts but soon. I took some pictures but they add nothing to those already posted here.

Delivered a day earlier than projected.

Now...what to do with the old parts.

From previously posted pictures I guess the parts are partially assembled, but if at all possible would you post a picture of the new motor data plate? I'm still wondering if the HP claims are apples-to-apples, and about the 1-1/2HP on 8 Amps concept. Some part of this remains a mystery.

There may be a market for some of the old parts on ebay. I saw a recent sale of a motor, I think it was somewhere near $100 plus shipping. And impellers remain on the SS list of most frequently bought parts.

David

Can't do. The unit comes fully assembled and only the end cap of the motor is visible and then only partially. I have the Motor and Fan Housing already installed but has not been run yet. Got side tracked by life.

DC-6000 - mine.PNG

JPG

I assume that is a cooling fan on the back end of the motor? So air over motor cooling.

DLB

JPG wrote I assume that is a cooling fan on the back end of the motor? So air over motor cooling.

Interesting. If the housing is similar to DC-3300 air inlet and exhaust are both through the opening we see in that pic. But the 3300 has air flow through the motor, effectively making two ducts controlling the in/out flow. It is less clear, from the pics, how this one works. I like the idea of the motor being enclosed, especially if it is sealed. And cooled.

- David

dusty

JPG wrote I assume that is a cooling fan on the back end of the motor? So air over motor cooling.

As you, I assume that the fins in this picturing are for cooling of the motor but there is no thru flow that I can find. The fins just keep the air moving. However, it appears that the DC-3300 is the same.

dusty

DLB wrote
JPG wrote I assume that is a cooling fan on the back end of the motor? So air over motor cooling.
Interesting. If the housing is similar to DC-3300 air inlet and exhaust are both through the opening we see in that pic. But the 3300 has air flow through the motor, effectively making two ducts controlling the in/out flow. It is less clear, from the pics, how this one works. I like the idea of the motor being enclosed, especially if it is sealed. And cooled.

- David

I see very little that is similar between the two. Yes, functionally they are identical but not physically,

DLB

Pictures of the motor from my upgrade kit, with a closeup of the label:

IMG_9063 2.JPG

IMG_9064 2.JPG

Initial impressions: The label has somewhat less information than I'm accustomed to. The motor is very quiet, the cooling fan noise is by far the loudest thing I hear. It does not make the loud click during deceleration that we associate with a centrifugal start switch. It runs CW when viewed from the shaft end, opposite of the DC-3300 motor. Relating to that direction of rotation, the bolt that holds the fan/impeller on the shaft is left-hand thread. The cooling fan is of smaller diameter than the end cap of the motor. The cooling approach remains unclear to me, but among the differences note that the motor is bolted to the metal fan housing and the shaft is bolted to a metal impeller/fan, both in contrast with plastic composite on the DC-3300. Given the claimed efficiency of the motor and this enhanced conductive cooling, over the motor cooling might not be relevant. But as a PowerPro owner I'm skeptical of the cooling, trust but verify. Like the DC-3300, the motor housing is essentially five sides of a box with one end partially open to a grate. On the DC-3300 though, cooling air inside the motor is moving one direction and exhaust air on the outside is moving the other. I'm sure there is recirculation of some of the heated air, but there is a defined and clear forced-air flow path. (Like a conventional headstock Vs. PowerPro.) I'll try to work out a way to monitor motor case temperature when I install it.

David

DLB

Here are new/old fan/impeller comparison photos. Noticeable changes include material, construction, diameter, height, direction of rotation, blade shape, and number of blades. I didn't mention it on the motor, but shaft diameter and key size are slightly different (metric Vs. SAE) between new and old. In both photos, the new one is on the left.

IMG_9065 3.JPG

IMG_9066 2.JPG

I have taken to calling these fan/impellers because the DC-3300 version is called an impeller and the DC-6000 version a fan. To me, they are both impellers. Perhaps there is some nuance in the definitions.(?)

Neither the DC-6000 fan/impeller nor motor have any indication as to who made them. I found that surprising on the motor (which does say made in China, but does not identify the manufacturer).

David

dusty

I'm curious. Why do you suppose the rotational direction was changed?

DLB

dusty wrote I'm curious. Why do you suppose the rotational direction was changed?

One guess, maybe one or more of the parts that 'have direction' is off-the-shelf or modified off-the-shelf.(?) Thereby reducing development costs. Those parts, from what I've seen so far, are the motor, fan/impeller, LH bolt, and fan housing. The fan housing, for example, has a square or rectangular flange with mounting holes in it, neither of which seem to be relevant in this installation. And its cover has an extension adapter to ultimately make if fit into the main housing. So it doesn't appear to me to be designed uniquely for the SS DC. It wouldn't surprise me if all of those parts came from some other air movement system, not necessarily a DC, and were modified to integrate with the existing SS DC design. Seems like a wise approach, when viable. But purely a guess.

- David

RFGuy

Yeah, impeller is the proper term and a "fan" should include the impeller + motor technically. However, some use the impeller and fan terms interchangeably.

Thanks for the side by side comparison. Interesting that they changed the direction of rotation. I believe the DC-3300 impeller was a forward-curved design, so if they changed rotation then they are now using a backward-curved impeller design. Below is a good document that explains the differences between forward-curved vs. backward-curved fans including their fan curves for comparison. As I understand it, forward-curved fans are less efficient and tend to be motor hungry, whereas backward-curved fans are more efficient and won't overload a motor provided it can meet the peak horsepower required. By switching to a backward-curve fan design, they could shrink the size of the impeller...

Fan-Performance-Characteristics-of-Centrifugal-Fans-FE-2400.pdf

DLB

RFGuy wrote ...I believe the DC-3300 impeller was a forward-curved design, so if they changed rotation then they are now using a backward-curved impeller design. Below is a good document that explains the differences between forward-curved vs. backward-curved fans including their fan curves for comparison...

Looking at the two, and the document you attached, I'm seeing them both as backward-curved types. Looking at the front view of new/old: New spins CW, so the leading edge of the curve is the convex side. Old spins CCW, so the leading edge of the curve is also the convex side. Or I am not understanding something.

- David

dusty

dusty wrote I'm curious. Why do you suppose the rotational direction was changed?

Answering my own question:

The blade was changed (reversed the curve) so they had to reverse rotational direction???

Or

They (for some reason) reversed rotational direction and therefore had to reverse the curve???

DLB

I completed the installation of my upgrade and have a few positive and negative initial observations.

Pro's: Airflow is definitely improved, to the point that I kind of wish I had an objective means of measurement. My DC has the 42" hood and, as observed by me and at least one other member, it previously did not fully inflate the hood even with all three ports open and no hoses attached (max airflow). It now fully inflates, even with one port blocked. Highly subjective, but I am favorably impressed.

Also, 4" hose support is going to be easy. The extension piece that goes between the fan housing and the three port plenum is an off the shelf 4" hose connector. So it's remove plenum, connect 4" hose.

Con's: Most exasperating to me right now is mine leaks somewhere. I can see fine sawdust particles being emitted or redirected by the cooling fan, suggesting a leak between the main cavity and the motor housing. I'm not seeing any large pieces, only fine sawdust. I've mentioned the deteriorated seal at the top of the motor housing in another thread, but the upgrade came with a new seal. Further investigation is needed, but I am unimpressed by that fat foam seal trying to seal a fairly substantial gap.

There were also visible gaps between the air inlet and the main housing. This is going to cause some degree of recirculation. On the DC-3300 the part that fit here, the fan housing, was rounded to fit the main housing, and there seems to have been some type of sealing material used here (mine was deteriorated). On the DC-6000 it is the above 4" hose adapter that goes here, the end is not rounded and does not match the main housing. There is no seal. Performance would likely be improved slightly by sealing added to this area to prevent recirculation.

- David

algale

I am dubious about that Shopsmith seal. It looks too porous to keep fine dust out of the motor.

In this thread, br549 used 1/8" x 2" self-adhesive rubber pipe seal. It looks like it has an impervious surface. https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=234151#p234151

DLB

I've disassembled my DC-6000 Upgrade and see multiple issues that could cause the leak I'm chasing. I'd prefer one. (Zero would be good.) The first pic is the "U" in the main housing where the motor housing sits. Two major issues, possibly related but I don't think so. 1) Note the end of the screw protruding at the bottom. This is the end of one of the screws for the dust bag retaining clips. Mine is precisely located to prevent good seating of the motor housing in two directions, seating all the way down in the "U" and seating as far outboard as possible to reduce the size of that top gap. 2) Note the discoloration in what should be the clean side of the top 'seal.' IMO this is because the 'seal' is acting like a somewhat porous filter and has trapped some of the larger particles. The top part is clean because I vacuumed it before disassembly.

Top Motor Seal.JPG

Next are two pics of the mating surface of the motor housing where it mates to the fan housing. (With apologies for the focus on the first.) There is no gasket or seal between the motor housing and the fan housing, though there is a rubber gasket between the motor itself and the fan housing. That might be okay if the surfaces of the motor and fan housings were flat where they mated, but as you can see they aren't. It looks like there was some kind of buildup on this surface that someone tried to clean up with a power tool, leaving both high and low spots. There is differential air pressure between the two volumes when the machine is running, so a leak here seems inevitable. The motor housing is held to the fan housing with four sheet metal screws, not particularly close together. The motor is through-bolted to the fan housing, so the motor housing is just a cover, unlike the DC-3300.

DC6K Motor Housing.JPG

DC6K Motor Housing Closeup.JPG

I'm not very happy with my upgrade.

David

RFGuy

David,

I have used a product called "air-sealing tape" from the hardware store before to seal up my DC-3300. At one point of dis-assembly/re-assembly one of the original factory seals fell apart. One product I used to replace it, is called "foam window seal" and one was called "sponge window seal". Both products had "air-sealing tape" listed on the package as well. Both are kind of a medium density foam tape product. As such there are no discernible air holes visible to the naked eye, so to a 1st order these should seal and prevent dust leaks. I never observed any air leaks after I made the change, but shortly thereafter I moved my DC-3300 into my attic so I don't use it as much anymore. It is in the attic because I hope to one day use it for dust collection from overhead using a Shark Guard. I would agree with you that the type of sponge gasket that Shopsmith sent you is too porous to use for dust collection sealing...that is the same stuff they sell to go with cheap window air conditioners to seal the window sash.

Is that how Shopsmith shipped you the new motor housing, i.e. with all those rough machining marks, etc.? Shouldn't it look like a new part, rather than a hack job? Let us know how Shopsmith responds on this one. Definitely disappointing to buy a new upgrade kit and receive something like that.

Dusty,

Did you get any airflow measurements on your DC-3300 with upgrade yet?

DLB

RFGuy wrote David,

...Is that how Shopsmith shipped you the new motor housing, i.e. with all those rough machining marks, etc.? Shouldn't it look like a new part, rather than a hack job? Let us know how Shopsmith responds on this one. Definitely disappointing to buy a new upgrade kit and receive something like that...

Yes, that is just as I received it. It shows evidence of quite a bit of machining for a plastic part IMO. I was looking at the last pic in this post earlier in this thread for reference: https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=285499#p285499 and his has a different shape than mine. Which, again, just seems strange for a plastic part. That shaping is not in a critical area, but for example if you look at his you see areas where the motor housing protrudes out beyond the fan housing. Mine does not protrude anywhere. But both have that weird cutaway at the top that serves no obvious purpose, and on mine this was clearly machined after the part was formed. If you look at my closeup you can also see machine marks on the inside of the motor cavity. It makes no sense unless the mold allowed overflow that interfered with the motor. But the part I'm concerned with it looks like there was extra plastic formed proud to the mating surface . Someone cut most of it away but cut too deep, and did not get it all, leaving both highs and lows.

I'll see what SS has to say. The only think I've done is cut and ground that screw. And confirmed on another main housing that the protruding screw is "normal" or that another main housing is equally deficient.

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