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Restoration Progress On My 1952 ER10

mickyd

Update 9-04-09 Added this thread index showing which posts contain certain info. The thread had gotten so long that it is difficult to easily find particulars. Hope this helps.

THREAD INDEX (work in-process)

Update 1-13-10 Decided to add the following thread / post index indicating where other frequently asked E / ER questions are.

OTHER INTERESTING ER RELATED THREADS / POST

Serial number / year made info - this post
Pulley - headstock pulley inside diameter 13/16" (0.8125") as determined in this thread
Documentation archives - Manuals, accessories, catalogs etc. - Old Woodworking Machine (OWWM) website, yahoo's Shopsmith10ERusers group[font=Georgia](free membership required),[/font]Gmail document depositiry- click on the gmail link at the top and login in using user: 10ERUSERS pa swrd: castiron, SSUG.org,

The original 4-30-09 post follows:

I started a thread on this machine in the Community forum when I first purchased it. The thread is at https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3422 . I brought the thread over here since it will soon go from a "Community" announcement to "Maintenance and Repair".

Although I haven't started working on it yet, I'd like to get a head start on what I need to do to evaluate the motor. When I purchased it, the guy said that it needed a motor. Might sound like a basic question with an obvious answer but.....what is the best way to evaluate if the motor is actually bad?

Is the quick on / off the prudent thing to do?

Curious to know typically how much it costs to repair a motor assuming someone burnt it up. Hopefully this question can be answered without knowing a lot of detail about what burnt up. I guess I am assuming the motor has to be rewound when they burn up?

dusty

I attempted to get the motor for my Crafters Station rewound. I checked with three motor shops here in Tucson. When all was done, it was cheaper to buy a new motor.

The cheapest rewind was $350.00. This would have included new bearings and paint (if required).

DO NOT TOUCH THE MOTOR while doing what I am about to recommend. Clamp it to a non conductive work bench.

As for checking the motor - I would secure it on a bench, plug it into an outlet that is switchable and turn it on ( being prepared to turn it off immediately).

If it hums, you might have a chance of reasonable repair. If it kicks the breaker immediately, you just might need a rewind.

JPG

Do you have a Volt-ohm meter? If so check for leakage(low resistance) from line terminals to frame.

A momentary on/off will probably do as Dusty has suggested(hum/run slow/trip breaker). He left off "RUN NORMAL"! The trip breaker may not be doomsville IF the wiring is shorted rather than in the windings.

I would dismount it and bench test it by first Removing all external wiring(line cord and switch cord). Attach a good condition line cord(2 or three wire) and then 'try it'. Pay attention to how it is originally wired so as to replicate it.

I assume the linecord goes to the motor and the neutral(white) is attached to one motor input terminal. The hot(black) line cord wire should somehow be connected to one switch cord lead. The other(of 2) switch cord lead should attach to a second motor input terminal. The switch connects at the other end of the switch cord(SPST)(two terminals)(one lead each).

For bench testing the switch/cord may be omitted. If you use a 3 wire line cord, make sure there is no leakage to ground b4 testing with power. If there IS leakage, do not connect third wire (green) to motor frame and proceed as dusty suggested(DO NOT TOUCH) while energizing.

mickyd

dusty wroteDO NOT TOUCH THE MOTOR while doing what I am about to recommend. Clamp it to a non conductive work bench.

As for checking the motor - I would secure it on a bench, plug it into an outlet that is switchable and turn it on ( being prepared to turn it off immediately).

If it hums, you might have a chance of reasonable repair. If it kicks the breaker immediately, you just might need a rewind.

dusty - Can I do the test with it still mounted in the machine? I haven't disassembled it yet. (committed not to work on it til greenie makes first speck of sawdust :D ). A hum would indicate just a bearing issue or could it go deeper than that?

heathicus

How far have you taken it apart at this point? Is it possible the motor is fine and the problem is something really simple like a bad switch, or a bad connection on the switch, or bad wiring in the plug or something like that?

With my 2nd ER (which I'm almost done restoring - and I'll post pics when I am done), although the motor seemed to work fine, when I took everything apart, I noticed one lead was connected to the switch by barely a strand of wire. A slight amount of tugging would have pulled it loose.

mickyd

mickyd comments in red

heathicus wroteHow far have you taken it apart at this point? Haven't' touched it yet. Is it possible the motor is fine and the problem is something really simple like a bad switch, or a bad connection on the switch, or bad wiring in the plug or something like that? I sure hope so

With my 2nd ER (which I'm almost done restoring - and I'll post pics when I am done)Ya, don't you hate it when people tease with photos before it's done :D , although the motor seemed to work fine, when I took everything apart, I noticed one lead was connected to the switch by barely a strand of wire. A slight amount of tugging would have pulled it loose.

JPG

mickyd wrotedusty - Can I do the test with it still mounted in the machine? I haven't disassembled it yet. (committed not to work on it til greenie makes first speck of sawdust :D ). A hum would indicate just a bearing issue or could it go deeper than that?

Maybe/YES!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe iff the shaft turns stiffly/hard.

heathicus

mickyd wroteYa, don't you hate it when people tease with photos before it's done :D

Yes, I do. Those people that pull stunts like posting blurry pictures of their almost completed machines should be taken out behind the woodshed and... oh, wait, that was you wasn't it?? :D :D

In my case, I'm almost done and if I post pictures now, that's where I will stop. If I make myself wait until I am 100% done before posting pictures, I'll be more likely to finish it.

dusty

JPG40504 wroteMaybe/YES!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe iff the shaft turns stiffly/hard.

Certainly. The only purpose is to get a better idea of what is wrong with the motor.

If it hums, DON'T LEAVE POWER APPLIED but for just a few seconds. When it is humming, the motor is trying to turn and during that time is drawing more current than normal. Thus the possibility of smoke which could lean toward rewind.

Then you might try what a reasonable person would do. Pull the motor off and have it tested by a motor shop.

I pay to have work done as a last resort. EXAMPLE: The jointer cutter head that I just purchased. Only in that case, I created the "last resort".

mickyd

JPG40504 wroteDo you have a Volt-ohm meter? If so check for leakage(low resistance) from line terminals to frame...............

Yes on the meter question. I'll take a more techy 'schpanation on your second sentence. Do you mean with the unit plugged in, not running, test across where the wires terminate at the motor to the headstock or other convenient part of the unit? If this is correct, exactly what is it checking for? Leakage of juice from what and why and how and...?

JPG

mickyd wroteYes on the meter question. I'll take a more techy 'schpanation on your second sentence. Do you mean with the unit plugged in, not running, test across where the wires terminate at the motor to the headstock or other convenient part of the unit? If this is correct, exactly what is it checking for? Leakage of juice from what and why and how and...?

Any thing connected(internally) to the input terminals should NOT provide a path for electricity to 'flow to the frame'. If the insulation has broken down(think burnt insulation in the windings) it will be "leakey"(a path for it to flow). The insulation should provide a resistance from input terminals to frame(outer case) in the range of 10**5 or greater(100Kohm).

For simplicity, measure from the plug on the line cord to frame(both blades, and in both power switch positions). This will test the insulation integrity of the motor AND all those other attached giz whizzes and wires.

heathicus

Another option is to just get one of the DC motors with speed controlthat Skip (from the Yahoo ER group) sells. Then, since you wont need the speed changer anymore, you could just send that to me! :D

JPG

heathicus wroteAnother option is to just get one of the DC motors with speed controlthat Skip (from the Yahoo ER group) sells. Then, since you wont need the speed changer anymore, you could just send that to me! :D

AFTER he restores it I assume!:D

mickyd

Haven't really started the restoration on the ER10 yet but I have been thinking about how I am going to bring the red color back to the logo nameplate. You can see in the pic that it is very faded.

Polishing compound DID NOT improve it. I tried it already.

The raised lettering is only .005" tall. I don't know how successful painting will be but then I have no idea of any other way to make it red again.

I wonder if it was originally painted or if it was a low viscosity ink.

Any ideas are welcome.

JPG

mickyd wroteHaven't really started the restoration on the ER10 yet but I have been thinking about how I am going to bring the red color back to the logo nameplate. You can see in the pic that it is very faded.

[ATTACH]4589[/ATTACH]

Polishing compound DID NOT improve it. I tried it already.

The raised lettering is only .005" tall. I don't know how successful painting will be but then I have no idea of any other way to make it red again.

I wonder if it was originally painted or if it was a low viscosity ink.

Any ideas are welcome.

Thinking back to my youth, I was working for a steel fabricator which was doing work for an engraving company. This 'plate' is similar to those used in that time frame(1950's). They were made by photo etching away the parts 'to be painted'. I do NOT recall totally, but I believe they also left the photo resist on until after painting. The paint on top of the resist was removed,by buffing I believe since the resist would not adhere as tightly as the paint. They did a LOT of buffing/polishing there.

This is REALLY foggy memory here, and as I was NOT actually involved myself in the process, these observations/conclusions may be incorrect. However my 'mind' was MUCH sharper then! Amazing the half century old somewhat trivial stuff 'stored' that comes out when I cannot remember 'why I came to this room and to do what'!:D

I do remember how to exit the room however - So there IS hope yet!

BTW they were processed in 'sheets' and were punched out LAST.

dicksterp

Mike,

You might wander over to http://www.owwm.com and check their forum boards. Some of the members there have made new badges by photo etching.

mickyd

dicksterp wroteMike,

You might wander over to http://www.owwm.com and check their forum boards. Some of the members there have made new badges by photo etching.

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't remember to post there. Getting a little scrambled juggling 4 different forums. I got a quick response from a couple of guys on how to best proceed so I am going to post links here and edit / add as they come up.

Here's my original post with them:

http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?t=56036

This thread discusses removal methods and reconditioning the badges.

http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?t=21710

mickyd

I've decided that I am going to attempt to recreate a logoplate using a chemical etch process similar to the way a printed circuit board is made. The original was most likely made with either a chemical etch or a photo-etch process. Both processes do the same thing. The difference is that way that each “masks” the surface prior to going into a chemical that etches the unmasked material away, leaving the lettering raised.

If you interested in seeing generally how it’s done, check out this 1 minute you tube clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fBlYEKqsRo

I am still going to try to paint the existing faded logoplate just to see how easy it will be to restore one of these things. The method I’ll try is spraying the entire face with red Rustoleum then sanding it on a flat surface with ~1000 grit sandpaper.

mickyd

Well, the restoration journey has officially begun. I've spent a couple hours the past two nights disassembling and in several areas failing miserably to do so. First pic is to remind you what it looked like as purchased.

This thing is INCREDIBLY rusty. Nothing moves on the way tubes, even with a persuader. I tried sanding away the way tube rust on one end of the headstock to see if I

could get any movement. Nothing, even with persuasion again. Next pic is just to show you that I really AM working on it. This assembly weighs 90 lbs.

My plans had been to put the whole way tube assembly shown above into the electrolysis tank as is but I can't because of the speed changer being aluminum. Aluminum is sensitive to electrolysis and its recommend to only expose it for about 15 minutes and then check frequently for any signs of slight pitting or discoloration. That just won't work. I'll probably just stand the thing up in a plastic kitchen garbage container and fill it with the electrolyte solution (washing soda and water) to just below the aluminum parts. I'll take any suggestions on how I am going to get the speed changer component to budge from where it is over to the cleaned tube.

Here's some other pics that shows the severity of rust. In this next picture, I am unable to get the aluminum caps on the end of the quill feed off. Soaked them in WD just to see if that helps. I'll know tomorrow.

This picture below really shows how heavy the rust is on the way tubes and other metal parts.

The last area that I am having problems with is the motor. I am trying to take it apart to inspect the bearings. I was able to get the front cover off to inspect the front bearing but I can't get the back cover off to check the rear bearing. I think that the rear bearing may be frozen into the back cover and that's the reason I can't get the cover off. I have a post up on the ER10 users site but haven't gotten a response since I posted at 2😛M🙁 .

That's all I have for tonight. Hopefully some progress by the weekend.

tom_k/mo

Mike thanks for the updates. Boy that is some UGLY rust on the way tubes. Hope you can get it disassembled and recover them successfully.