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Restoration Progress On My 1952 ER10

JPG

tom_k/mo wroteMike thanks for the updates. Boy that is some UGLY rust on the way tubes. Hope you can get it disassembled and recover them successfully.

Some sellers on e-bay would call that slight surface rust that will clean up nicely to provide years of satisfactory use!:D

etc92guy

Use Kroil......I've seen it due some amazing things. I think it penetrates down to .005". What about sanding the tubes to get the top layer off? Then dump it in the tank?

JPG

etc92guy wroteUse Kroil......I've seen it due some amazing things. I think it penetrates down to .005". What about sanding the tubes to get the top layer off? Then dump it in the tank?

Do NOT overlook plain old Kerosene! It penetrates!

heathicus

My 2nd 10ER had way tubes that were rusted about that bad (yours may actually be slightly worse). What I did was take some strips of emery cloth and lightly sand the tubes.

Wrap the emery cloth around the tube and do the back and forth shoe-shine method. Just enough to take out the worst of the surface rust. Then, I soaked the tubes down with 3-in-1 oil. Maybe there's better oil for that, but that's just what I had plenty of. But to get the parts free, I had to use Kroil. WD-40, 3-in-1, Liquid Wrench and hours of pounding with a rubber mallet did nothing to break the parts free. Kroil did the trick, though. I could only find it locally in an aerosol can called "Aero Kroil."

Apply a little Kroil to all of the crevices where the tubes emerge from the headstock, carriage, etc. Remove the set screws and apply some Kroil in those holes. Wait about 30 minutes or so, then start tapping with a rubber mallet. Apply more Kroil if necessary. If you don't have enough room between the parts to get a good swing with the mallet, use a 2"x2" board. Butt one end against the headstock or carriage and whack the other end with the mallet. Eventually, you should see things moving. I got better movement if I hit one side near one tube, then the other side near the other tube rather than hitting the middle.

It's going to be hard work getting everything off of the tubes. But keep the tubes oiled down and use Kroil and you'll eventually get everything free.

Another note on Kroil. It's kind of expensive and a little bit goes a long way so you don't need to soak your tubes with it or apply so much it's running everywhere. Just apply a tiny bit to the seams and holes, watch it soak into those seams (even running "uphill!"), then apply a tiny bit more. Eventually you'll see it coming out on the other side and that should be enough.

heathicus

Oh, another thing to check for on the headstock and carriage is the lock wedges. On both of mine, the wedges were twisted and wedged TOO far between the castings and tubes. Loosening the lock handle would not free up the wedges. If that's the case on yours, remove the lock handle by unscrewing it completely then use a punch or a nail or something similar to knock out each wedge.

beeg

And I wonder if loosing the tubes and trying to twist them around might help????

heathicus

beeg wroteAnd I wonder if loosing the tubes and trying to twist them around might help????

If you have a strap wrench, maybe. I don't think you'd want to use a pipe wrench on them.

mickyd

Wow. Lots of good ideas flowing. Thanks a lot!!

etc92guy wroteUse Kroil......I've seen it due some amazing things. I think it penetrates down to .005". What about sanding the tubes to get the top layer off? Then dump it in the tank?

Called them this morning and they offer a money back guarantee if it doesn't work. It can't be found locally in SoCal. (Arnold probably terminated it's use here). They advertise penetrates to 1/1,000,000". Sure would love to see the method they used to validate that!!:eek:

Here's the recipe

Chemical name, CAS#, %

[align=left]Severely Hydrotreated Petroleum Distillates, 64742-52-5, 30-50%

Light Petroleum Distillates, 64742-95-6/64742-88-7/64742-47-8, 30-50%

Aliphatic Alcohols 78-92-2/123-42-2, 1-5%

Glycol Ether, 111-76-2, 1-5%[/align]

Proprietary Ingredients Proprietary 5-15%

Sure seems like a huge % range they work to. That's what my moms chicken soup used to be like....whatever was in the fridge!! She used to even make it with NO CHICKEN!!

JPG40504 wroteDo NOT overlook plain old Kerosene! It penetrates!

I wrestle with kerosene vs. Kyroil. I'd like to try the kerosene first but.....I think I just gotta see what this Kyroil is all about. Flows UPHILL!

Here's the recipe for kerosene

[align=left]Chemical name, CAS #, % by Weight[/align]

[align=left]Kerosene, 8008-20-6 or 64742-81, 100%[/align]

heathicus wroteMy 2nd 10ER had way tubes that were rusted about that bad (yours may actually be slightly worse). What I did was take some strips of emery cloth and lightly sand the tubes........

Apply a little Kroil to all of the crevices where the tubes emerge from the headstock, carriage, etc. Remove the set screws and apply some Kroil in those holes. Wait about 30 minutes or so, then start tapping with a rubber mallet. Apply more Kroil if necessary.

Another note on Kroil. It's kind of expensive........ Just apply a tiny bit to the seams and holes, watch it soak into those seams (even running "uphill!"), then apply a tiny bit more. Eventually you'll see it coming out on the other side and that should be enough.

I like this info heath. It gives me a little hope that with some time and patients, I at least stand a chance. Your 2nd ER was pretty bad. If any of you haven't seen it, check it out:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=37601&postcount=1

heathicus wroteOh, another thing to check for on the headstock and carriage is the lock wedges. On both of mine.......

This won't be problem. I have already removed both of mine. Mine were the one piece style and came right out

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beeg wroteAnd I wonder if loosing the tubes and trying to twist them around might help????

I think this is a GREAT idea beeg. I don't know if the component contact surface area is so great that it would take a ton of torque but it may be worth a try. I'll wrap the tubes with leather belt to protect them. I'll have to see. The tubes are thick enough where they should be able to withstand a pretty decent torque with a hefty pipe wrench.

OK, back to my think tank. Keep the gray matter active and post any ideas. Thanks again.

JPG

"Uphill" = Capillary Action! Interesting that you can SEE it coming through the 'other side'.

beeg

beeg wroteAnd I wonder if loosing the tubes and trying to twist them around might help????

Well I DID mean twist em by hand. Then putting it in drill press position, then oil the tubes. MAYBE that evaporust may help out?

mickyd

beeg wroteWell I DID mean twist em by hand. Then putting it in drill press position, then oil the tubes. MAYBE that evaporust may help out?

Pipe wrench all the way baby!!

mickyd

JPG40504 wrote"Uphill" = Capillary Action! Interesting that you can SEE it coming through the 'other side'.

Indeed! aka "The wicking effect".

mickyd

mickyd wrote
Well, the restoration journey has officially begun. I've spent a couple hours...........

The last area that I am having problems with is the motor. I am trying to take it apart to inspect the bearings. I was able to get the front cover off to inspect the front bearing but I can't get the back cover off to check the rear bearing. I think that the rear bearing may be frozen into the back cover and that's the reason I can't get the cover off. I have a post up on the ER10 users site but haven't gotten a response since I posted at 2😛M🙁 .

[font=Calibri]Tonight was motor night. I was able to get the back cover off using a nylon mallet and hitting the motor shaft a few times. That popped the back cover open. As soon as it opened up, I could see why she was turning a bit tight.[/font]

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[font=Calibri]The entire back cover is rust. The OD of the bearing is frozen solid in the mating hole.[/font]

[font=Calibri]I think the only way I am going to get the bearing unstuck is a penetrating oil soak??? I ordered a spray can of “Kroil” today so it should be in early next week. Until then, the motor project is on hold.[/font]

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[font=Calibri]I still don’t even know if the motor is any good so before I put any money into it, I still need to bench test it. I’m not sure how much of jpg’s procedure1or procedure2applies now that the motor is out so if I could get an update on that, I’d appreciate it.[/font]

osx-addict

Yikes! That is some major rust.. I guess you can tell where it spent a long time sitting! After you get the exterior case disassembled it might be time for another round of electrolysis (sans any electronic parts obviously)

JPG

The only thing that affects procedure 1 & 2 is the presence of rust. I do noit think rust is a good insulator. Do a continuity check of the windings after disconnecting the other electrical parts. The readings should be in the very low((< 10 & < 1 ohm) range, and high(near infinity) from windings to frame. I am assumikng there are three wires connected to the windings. Pay attention to which wire goes where and make sure you can identify them later since colors are NOT obvious. Mark them now somehow so as to be able to reconnect them correctly later. Clean as much of the contamination from all other parts as you can.

mickyd

JPG40504 wroteThe only thing that affects procedure 1 & 2 is the presence of rust. I do noit think rust is a good insulator. Do a continuity check of the windings after disconnecting the other electrical parts. The readings should be in the very low((< 10 & < 1 ohm) range, and high(near infinity) from windings to frame. I am assumikng there are three wires connected to the windings. Pay attention to which wire goes where and make sure you can identify them later since colors are NOT obvious. Mark them now somehow so as to be able to reconnect them correctly later. Clean as much of the contamination from all other parts as you can.

You mention doing the continuity test AFTER disconnecting the other electric parts. This means unsoldering the 1 winding and 1 capacitor wire that connect to the plate, correct? By "plate", I mean the one that the white/black switch wires and white/black winding wires are fastened to with nuts.

You were assuming that there were 3 wires coming off the winding. I don't have the motor with me but in the last photo in my last post above, I see 4. There is a black and white pair that connect to the same posts as the white and black switch wires, 1 black that goes to the capacitor, and 1 black that is soldered to the plate.

Your cautionary note re marking goes without mention.

JPG

mickyd wroteYou mention doing the continuity test AFTER disconnecting the other electric parts. This means unsoldering the 1 winding and 1 capacitor wire that connect to the plate, correct? By "plate", I mean the one that the white/black switch wires and white/black winding wires are fastened to with nuts.

You were assuming that there were 3 wires coming off the winding. I don't have the motor with me but in the last photo in my last post above, I see 4. There is a black and white pair that connect to the same posts as the white and black switch wires, 1 black that goes to the capacitor, and 1 black that is soldered to the plate.

Your cautionary note re marking goes without mention.

OK so there are 4 wires. The 'plate' is I believe also part of a centrifugal switch.

Modify the 'continuity' checks to determine if there are two windings(two wires each). Check to frame still applies. there should be some type of flyweight mechanism actuating the 'centrifugal switch'. You need to 'flush' out all the rust to see what is really there!

mickyd

JPG40504 wroteOK so there are 4 wires. The 'plate' is I believe also part of a centrifugal switch.

Modify the 'continuity' checks to determine if there are two windings(two wires each). Check to frame still applies. there should be some type of flyweight mechanism actuating the 'centrifugal switch'. You need to 'flush' out all the rust to see what is really there!

Should I unsolder wires connected to the "plate" and the one soldered to the back of the capacitor prior to test?

mickyd

mickyd wrote I've decided that I am going to attempt to recreate a logoplate using a chemical etch process similar to the way a printed circuit board is made. The original.......

If you interested in seeing generally how it&#8217][/URL]

I am still going to try to paint the existing faded logoplate..........

One of this weekends project will be my first attempt to reproduce the ER10's logo nameplate. I have all the materials I need to try out the chemical etch process.

1 Qt. bottle of ferric chloride - to etch away the metal sheet stock, $10.00
Master artwork of the logo design - provided by our own tom_k/mo. Thanks Tom!!
20 sheet pack of Press-n-Peel Blue (transfer film that you laser copy a reverse image of the artwork onto) - $40 with shipping. I plan to ebay the leftover sheets and have the proceeds cover the entire cost of the project!:D )

So with this material, a clothes iron or laminator, and a plastic container to the solution, hopefully I'll be able to duplicate the nameplate, raised letters and all.

mbcabinetmaker

Mike

You might want to borrow MY muskrat while working on the electrical.😃

Mark

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