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Restoration Progress On My 1952 ER10

mickyd

tom_k/mo wroteMike, great job for a first attempt. What is the material you're using to make the new nameplate out of?

Using .032" brass sheet. Original nameplate is .032" aluminum. The etch photo is in b&w so that I could get better contract to show the etching.

mickyd

[font=Times New Roman]Before I put too much effort into the motors armature shaft bearing that was frozen into the back motor cover, I electrical tested the motor to see if it was any good. When I bought the ER, the guy said that he thought the motor was bad. I performed the continuity and resistance checks of the 2 motor winding pairs per jpg’s procedure. Everything was disconnected from the wires prior to test. The tests turned out good.!![/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Winding pairMain Woodworking Forum – White/Black armature wires that go to respective posts on terminal plate[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Continuity =.003 ohms[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Resistance = _5M ohms to the frame[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Winding pair #2 – Black/black armature wires, one to the capacitor, one to the terminal plate [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Continuity = .009 ohms[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Resistance = _5M ohms to the frame[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Next task was to unfreeze the rear motor bearing that was stuck in the back cover (shown at the end of post 47) [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Was going to wait for the “Kroil” to arrive in a week but jpg coaxed me into trying out Evapo-Rust. Went out and bought a quart and filled up the bearing cavity. Left it for 24 hrs. Rust was so thick around the bearing / cover that when I look at it after 24 hrs., it looked unchanged. Plus all of the Evapo-Rust was GONE. (guess that’s why they call it EVAPO-Rust[/font][font=Wingdings][font=Wingdings]😃[/font][/font][font=Times New Roman]). Using a nylon mallet tapping around the outer lip of the motor cover broke the bearing loose from the mating hole. That now exposed the terminal plate and the back side of the armature that holds the centrifugal mechanism that control it.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman].[/font]

I'll be documenting the wiring for the terminal plate later post. (Note: positive post is not shown. It's soldered to the capacitor)

I put the back motor cover is in the electrolysis tank after I disassembled. Going to leave it in 24 hours. Due out tonight.

mickyd

Back motor cover came out of the electrolysis bath. Now this looks a little better doesn't it? (Wonder how many would have just thrown the motor away?)

CAUTIONARY NOTE: YOU MUST REMOVE THE ALUMINUM NAMEPLATE PRIOR TO ELECTROLYSIS IF YOU PLAN ON SAVING IT.

. .

tom_k/mo

Boy Mike, it is amazing what that electrolysis process is capable of. You are literally giving those parts a second chance at life.

mickyd

[font=Verdana]Update on the nameplate I am recreating. Still in prototype mode for sure. In my previous postyou saw the unpainted, crudely etched first off sample. Crude as it was, it was a starting point. I painted the entire surface with Rustoleum gloss red enamel spray paint. To get the raised lettering to show up, the next step after painting was sanding the entire surface, exposing the brass, using a piece of glass to hold the sandpaper perfectly flat. I used double sided tape on the glass and adhered the sandpaper to one piece of glass and the nameplate to another piece. Started with 220 grit DRY and sanded until I started seeing bear metal of the raised lettering. It took 3 quarter sheets to get there. Sandpaper would load up with paint. Went to 400 grit DRY next. Went though 4 quarter sheets (same load up problem) and still wasn’t down to base metal everywhere. Some of the large lettering,along with a couple other areas still had some localized areas with a bit of paint left on them . Decided to try 400 grit WET thinking that it would prevent the load up but within a few swipes, it took an area of the background down to bear metal!!!! Background is supposed to STAY PAINTED. Apparently what happens is the wet gritty “slurry” that forms rides over the grit of the sandpaper and in effect DOUBLING the overall thickness. That’s MY story and I am sticking to it.[/font]

[font=Verdana]From here, it only got worse. The wet sanding had also started to take the gloss off the background paint since the “slurry” was obviously lightly scraping the entire painted surface. When it was wet with water, you couldn’t see it but it was real obvious when it dried. Figured no biggie since I planned on putting a clear gloss overcoat over the entire nameplate anyway to stop the oxidation of the brass. Got out my can of clear overcoat, shook for the prescribed 2 minutes, sprayed it onto the nameplate and the red enamel spray paint immediately started bubbling up. Thought my contacts were getting blurry so I blinked a few times but the bubbling was even worse. Then I realized something I used to know but since forgot…… The overcoat I was using was clear gloss lacquer. The red spray paint I used was enamel. Enamel can only be covered by enamels or acrylics. Lacquer overcoat is incompatible with enamel[/font]

[font=Verdana]So, here is a photo of my disaster 1st prototype. Looks terrible but learned a lot. Figured since I post my successes, I should also post my failures!![/font]

[font=Verdana].[/font]

[font=Verdana][/font]

[font=Verdana]Since it was still early in the evening, I started my 2nd prototype (on the reverse side of this first disaster) with all this new found experience and knowledge. Got it all the way through the painting stage and am VERY happy with the result so far. The etching came out MUCH BETTER, but still not perfect. I’ll post later today or tonight and show you the results.[/font]

osx-addict

Mike.. You are a man of MANY talents! I would not have the patience to do much of what you're doing.. The results are 100% awesome and you certainly have a vision of what can be done and nothing will stop you! Keep up the great work!

bucksaw

I'm not sure if this would work for you, but I would have wrapped the glass with a cloth (like shirt fabric that is really flat) and wet it down with acetone and carefully wiped off the unwanted paint while it was still a little tacky. That is how I handle the speed dial, etc on the headstock. On some of the parts I use a q-tip to remove the unwanted paint in the hard to get at places.

mickyd

bucksaw wroteI'm not sure if this would work for you, but I would have wrapped the glass with a cloth (like shirt fabric that is really flat) and wet it down with acetone and carefully wiped off the unwanted paint while it was still a little tacky. That is how I handle the speed dial, etc on the headstock. On some of the parts I use a q-tip to remove the unwanted paint in the hard to get at places.

Good idea bucksaw. Ill try that this weekend. Sanding was a Pain!

mickyd

It's getting better all the time.

This series of photos will show you what went into the making of the 2nd prototype of the ER nameplate. I'm narrowing down the variables. I figure it will take me one or two more tries to get one that "meets standard".

Here' what the Press-n-Peel (aka PNP) blue transfer sheet looks like after you iron it on and remove from the sheet stock. Where it is clear is where there was laser printer toner adhered to it that is now transfered onto the stock. The toner is what blocks the etching chemical from attacking the metal. You'll notice on the P and H that there is a black spot of toner that didn't stick to the sheet stock. You also see black around some of the small lettering and also where the circle around the copyright symbol isn't complete. This transfer step is the number one critical step in the whole process. If the entire transfer doesn't come off 100%, you have to touch up the image on the sheet stock.

Here's the brass sheet stock with the toner mask on it. If when you peel off the PNP there are areas where the toner remained on the PNP, they can get touched up with any kind of lacquer. In my case, I used my wife's nail polish (SSSSHHHHH!!) and a very fine paint brush. There was no way for me to accurately touch up the circle around the copyright symbol with the smallest brush I have so I left it. I knew I'd be making another one.

Here's after etching with 1/2 of the plate wiped off. You use fine steel wool under running water to remove the adhered toner. After you done here, it's off to the paint shop.

Finally, the painted part was sanded with the flat glass and sandpaper to remove the paint from the lettering. This is where it's a real pain. Not all the lettering cleans up at exactly the same time and you'll find yourself sanding through the background paint exposing the metal where you don't want to expose it. I did that again here but then crudely masked off all the lettering an shot 2 thin coats to cover the areas. The problem here is the paint is now up to the same level as the lettering. No biggie but that's not the way it should be. The lettering should be raised.

For my 3rd prototype (which hopefully may even be my final version), I am going to concentrate on the areas that are found to be most important, flatness of the plate, 100% transfer of the toner after ironing, and getting as much of the paint off the lettering before it dries (like bucksaw suggested) to reduce the amount of sanding that needs to be done. Don't think I'll do it today though. I have plenty of outdoor work to do to keep me busy.

mickyd

Here's pics of my favorite process. I had to put the entire assembly of way tubes, tailstock, carriage, and baseplate swing arm into electrolysis tank since they were all frozen solid into one nasty homogeneous piece. Nothing would move.

This picture shows the piece of sheet metal on the bottom of the tank (anode). The arrow points to the threaded rod that stays up above the electrolyte solution and that's used to connect the positive lead of the battery charger to.

15 gallons of the electrolyte is added to the tank (1/2 cup baking soda per 5 gallons water and the soda was cooked at 300* for an hour in the oven turns it into washing soda and then just add straight tap water). This is the same batch I have been using for the past year for cast iron pans, Greenie parts, tools etc.). Make it once and it keeps forever. I have three 5 gallon paint buckets that I store it in. As water evaporate, just add more water. You never have to add more washing soda.

The red positive lead connects to the exposed threaded rod and the black negative lead is connected to a c-clamp that is tightened around one of the way tubes (after a localized wire brushing to bring expose clean metal). The assembly is held up off of the sheet metal with a couple of plastic food containers. The assembly CANNOT touch the sheet metal or else you'll short out your battery charger.

Here's the assembly has been in for about 3 hours. I left it in a total of 24 hours before removing it an rinsing it off.

All the rust on the tubes is gone. What was left on the tubes is the black crud that washes / brushes off with ease. I was able to remove the frozen components with the help of a rubber mallet to get them moved off of the position they were froze in. I wasn't able to remove them toward the tailstock side because the end of on of the tubes have somehow been slightly deformed and I wasn't able to file it down since it was so close to the tailstock holes. Looks like the previous owner may have taken a hammer to the tube......probably to try and unfreeze the tailstock.!!!! Hitting in the opposite direction, once the components hit the area where the rust was removed, they slide pretty freely.

The tubes are fairly pitted. We'll see what they come out looking like after I sand them. Now I have to work on a setup so that I can turn the tubes on my Mark 5 instead of having to use one of the various drill setupsthat have been used in the past. Plans are to use a roller setup similar to jpg's with a wooden mounting plate(so I don't have to drill into my Mark 5's tailstock.

Couple notes on the electrolysis.

This electrolysis tank was setup on the bench of the ER. This is a better setup than I usedlast time in that I was able to siphon the liquid back into the buckets since the whole setup is up off the ground. Last time, I had to use a pitcher. (so I guess this make the setup revision B).
Supposedly, electrolysis is a "line of sight" rust removal method. The area it cleans must be in the view of the anode sheet metal. It supposedly doesn't go around corners. For whatever reason, this didn't apply to the tubes. It cleaned the tops of the tubes even though there is no direct "line of sight" to the anode. Same thing happened on the Greenie. Don't understand why, just know it did

mickyd

It's amazing the simplest places you can get stuck when doing a restoration. I have the ER completely unassembled except for a knob that is on the end of the quill feed lever. I just can't get it to budge.

The knob on the other side came off after a one day soak in evapo-rust. It did take a number of nylon mallet blows spaced around the inside surface for it to move.

I sprayed the frozen knob / shaft interface about 6 times over the course of 2 days with "Kroil". No luck budging it. I then decided to submerge it in evapo-rust for 2 days, again with no luck.

I can only think of two other options.

Apply heat with a propane torch and try rotating the knob vs. striking it with a mallet. I'll need to wrap a piece of leather belt around it so that it doesn't get damaged by the pipe wrench.
Use a slide hammer. (don't have one....). Since the end of the knob is solid, a bearing / gear puller won't work. The problem with this is I have no good way to hold the shaft from moving. There is a lock collar that you can just see on the other side of the headstock but even with the nylon hammer blows, it causes the lock collar to slide and dig up the shaft. The set screw just can hold it. I suppose I could back it up with a big c-clamp to help it out.

I'll tryMain Woodworking Forum tonight. If that doesn't work, I'll have to fashion a homemade slide hammer. Cheapest ones I've seen are about $30.

robinson46176

:D :D :D :D

http://evavhost.com/i/news/big_hammer.jpg

mickyd

robinson46176 wrote:D :D :D

http://evavhost.com/i/news/big_hammer.jpg

Ok, so maybe there was a THIRD option I didn't consider.:D

JPG

mickyd wroteOk, so maybe there was a THIRD option I didn't consider.:D

#4?:rolleyes: Do you have any 3/8-16 bolts :D about 6-8" long? put one or three into the hub and either use them directly or to have a longer lever arm a piece of pipe over them. A nut attached at the outside of the hub where the bolt enters will HELP to keep from damaging the hub threads. Unfortunately the handle holes are NOT perpendicular to the hub surface.:( Since the threaded hole goes all the way into the shaft bore hole, you would need to avoid screwing the bolts in too far!

P.S. Can you see the steel shaft from all 4 holes?

BTW How long are the quill handle shafts, and what is the diameter of the ball?

beeg

Lightly tap it onto the shaft, then SOAK it again for 24 hr.

judaspre1982

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mickyd

JPG40504 wrote#4?:rolleyes: Do you have any 3/8-16 bolts :D about 6-8" long? put one or three into the hub and either use them directly or to have a longer lever arm a piece of pipe over them. A nut attached at the outside of the hub where the bolt enters will HELP to keep from damaging the hub threads. Unfortunately the handle holes are NOT perpendicular to the hub surface.:( Since the threaded hole goes all the way into the shaft bore hole, you would need to avoid screwing the bolts in too far!

P.S. Can you see the steel shaft from all 4 holes?

BTW How long are the quill handle shafts, and what is the diameter of the ball?

I somewhat dismissed the use of the threaded holes since they are a fairly loose fit on the quill handle shaft unless the shaft is bottomed out in the hole. Your suggestion however of using a nut to bias the threads against the mating teeth may eliminate that. It's definitely worth a try and a better option than the pipe wrench.

I managed to scrounge up a couple 3/8-16 x 9" bolts that I can try out. I will go real easy until I am sure it won't strip out the holes.

Your P.S.....yes, I can see the bottom of the holes (bet you thought I forgot the set screw now dintcha?)

Your BTW....I will check dimensions when I get home. You mention shafts . My unit only had the one quill handle shaft. You have more?

mickyd

judaspre1982 wroteMike, I'm surprised the Kroil did not do the trick. Heat can be your friend in this situation. The aluminum should heat up fast. Do you know what a ball joint puller looks like? It is fork shaped and forms a wedge. You could try and fabricate something similar to pry on the knob. A piece of wood against the dial indicator would protect it from the prying. I will search for a pic of the puller---Dave http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2004159/c-10614/Nty-1/p-2004159/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10614/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=ball+joint+puller

It's possible that I have a mechanical interference vs. corrosion. Don't know for sure yet. Ball joint puller concept is definitely an option. (real familiar with automotive stuff....drag raced a SCREAMING 420HP NOS Mazda RX-7 for 7 years...you learn more repair tools than you even want to know!!) I even thought of something like the ball joint puller with long forks so that I could strike both sides of the feed lever knob at the same time with 2 mallets.

beeg wrote Lightly tap it onto the shaft, then SOAK it again for 24 hr.

Don't think I can wait another day beeg. Getting to impatient watching the knob taking a bath. Plus, if interference is mechanical.....

baysidebob

judaspre1982 wroteMike, I'm surprised the Kroil did not do the trick. Heat can be your friend in this situation. The aluminum should heat up fast. Do you know what a ball joint puller looks like? It is fork shaped and forms a wedge. You could try and fabricate something similar to pry on the knob. A piece of wood against the dial indicator would protect it from the prying. I will search for a pic of the puller---Dave http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product/Pr-p_Product.CATENTRY_ID:2004159/c-10614/Nty-1/p-2004159/Ntx-mode+matchallpartial/N-10614/tf-Browse/s-10101/Ntk-AllTextSearchGroup?Ntt=ball+joint+puller

If you google "pickle fork" you will find informaton on this ball joint puller you reference.

judaspre1982

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