Vertical Drilling - not quite vertical.

alfatipo · Post by **alfatipo** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:47 pm

I tried vertical drilling and realized the raised SS assembly did not arc through 90 degrees. Substantially off in fact.

I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles.

The way and bench tubes a pretty level in the horizontal position.

I suspect the issue is the base mount does not swing through 90 degrees. Anyone else noticed this?

I did notice the the way tubes appear to be bent in that the ends are higher then the center point. Not measured by how much. Not huge.

Can I rotate the way tubes while they are in their supports and the headstock is attached to 'straighten' them? Can't figure out how they are attached/secured.

Thanks.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:11 pm

alfatipo wrote:I tried vertical drilling and realized the raised SS assembly did not arc through 90 degrees. Substantially off in fact.

I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles. It needs to be at right angles to the quill

The way and bench tubes a pretty level in the horizontal position.

I suspect the issue is the base mount does not swing through 90 degrees. Anyone else noticed this?..... NO!

I did notice the the way tubes appear to be bent in that the ends are higher then the center point. Not measured by how much. Not huge.Is the weight of the headstock deflecting them?

Can I rotate the way tubes while they are in their supports and the headstock is attached to 'straighten' them? Can't figure out how they are attached/secured. A setscrew at each end.

Thanks.

Have you backed off the lock screw and secured it after raising it all the way?

I would not do any way tube rotating until it has been absolutely determined that doing so will 'improve' matters.

Your first priority is the perceived lack of rotational motion. It should go 90°.

Finally the large dimple in the side of the hinge is NOT centered under the lock screw when fully raised.(intentionally)

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:32 pm

Hold on before you do anything.

I will now go and search for previous posting here that may describes what you are seeing.

Ed

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:51 pm

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3381

I and several other saw less then 90 degree readings. You can see how we measured and the results in this thread.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=1887

Some have more then 90 degrees.

This might help as well:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=5168

These are relative to the 90 degree arc portion of your post.

Might be more but I'll let you or others dig them out.

Ed

alfatipo · Post by **alfatipo** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:18 pm

Thanks for the fast and detailed response. Just got back in after seeing how cleanly the quill rack can remove flesh; pretty well actually.

Not read the links reible posted yet.

To answer JPG's remarks:

I need to add around 1.5" of packing under the headrest end legs to get it near vertical and then adjust the main table to get the table headstock at right-angles. It needs to be at right angles to the quill

I did final table adjustment against a straight 1/2" rod.

I did notice the the way tubes appear to be bent in that the ends are higher then the center point. Not measured by how much. Not huge.
Is the weight of the headstock deflecting them?

The headstock deflects the way tubes? How depressing. Has anyone tried filling the tubes with concrete to see if that helps?

Can I rotate the way tubes while they are in their supports and the headstock is attached to 'straighten' them? Can't figure out how they are attached/secured. A setscrew at each end.

Thank you.

I have some other headstock questions but shall start new posts if I can't find the answers by searching.

alfatipo · Post by **alfatipo** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:01 pm

I read Ed's links (thanks Ed) to the vertical angle posts and mine may be 3 degrees off (4 if the nominal 91 degs is correct).

I shall check the tubes are screwed tight but not too tight and they are all the way in.

Having to true the table just to use the drill press option seems a little wasteful time-wise. I'll pick up a regular drill press. The vertical option has a few advantages but I doubt I'll need them very often.

The SS I acquired was woefully maintained. Spending more time getting to run right than using it. Love the 12" sanding disk.

One post from Ed's list mentioned the Shopsmith on a Leave it to beaver episode but it has been taken down by YouTube.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:51 pm

alfatipo wrote:I read Ed's links (thanks Ed) to the vertical angle posts and mine may be 3 degrees off (4 if the nominal 91 degs is correct).

I shall check the tubes are screwed tight but not too tight and they are all the way in.

Having to true the table just to use the drill press option seems a little wasteful time-wise. I'll pick up a regular drill press. The vertical option has a few advantages but I doubt I'll need them very often.

The SS I acquired was woefully maintained. Spending more time getting to run right than using it. Love the 12" sanding disk.

One post from Ed's list mentioned the Shopsmith on a Leave it to beaver episode but it has been taken down by YouTube.

Not quite as simple as that!

In case you get in too deep - https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=41340#post41340

A 'regular' drill press. Would be interesting to see how accurate that would be if the table 'tilted'. Some do you know. I would rather have one that IS adjustable so that it CANBE set accurately.

FWIW the quill/table alignment etc. is not independent of saw blade to table adjustment. It should only be done after all the others are done. There are only two things to 'adjust' anyway - stop screws and shimming the table/trunions.

P.S. No I do not think the headstock deflects the way tubes appreciably if they are oem. I was grasping for a clearer explanation of why you thought the ends were higher.

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:53 pm

If your tubes are bent which could happen if they and the headstock fell from vertical, or someone decided to some other damage to it. The tubes will not deflect under the weight of any of the tools and headstock under normal conditions.

Used machines you never know about. It could be someone replaced the tubes with non shopsmith oem stock or used something with the correct outside diameter but not thick enough material or the correct type of steel.

If the tubes are bent you will need to replace them to get much use out of the machine. The drill press, table saw, horizontal boring, lathe work and in some cases sanding will not work correctly with bent tubes. I guess you could use for SPT's but that is about it. The tubes can be purchased from Shopsmith or off ebay or through private sellers.

You might want to take the tubes off and check for other damaged items that might also be effecting the settings.

As far as the drill press, the shopsmith happens to be a very good one and I think you need to simply learn how to get it set up right. You need to do that pretty much one time and then only again after a major disassemble or major part replacements of parts related to the drill press mode.

Once set I don't recall ever having to even make adjustments... the front to back is done by shimming the table mount fore and/or aft, the other adjustment that you use to set to what your required angle is, that being adjustable by a stop at 90 degrees for most drilling. The other angles between are marked and you simply tilt the table and tighten in position.

If you have questions feel free to ask, most of us here do our own repairs and maintenance and a lot of us have had machines for many many years. I got my first machine new in 1976, now I have 5 of them. The gang is all here to help when we can.

Ed

wa2crk · Post by **wa2crk** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:41 pm

Do the way tubes have to go to a 90 deg angle when setting into drill press mode? IMHO if the table is perpendicular to the drill bit and the travel of the quill then the exact angle is not a factor. Imagine a standard drill press and then put a shim at the rear of the mounting foot and the machine will be tilted forward but the relationship of the table to the drill bit will not be affected.
The method that I use is to set the table in the drill press mode and with a sawblade mounted, move the blade about 1/8 inch away from the table. The saw blade should be equidistant from the table surface at all points around the blade. This will insure that the plane of rotation of the quill will be parallel at all points around the table when in drill press mode. If the table is NOT equidistant from the blade around it's circumference (the blade's) then the table is not at 90 deg to the plane of rotation of the quill and has to be adjusted.
Bill V

wa2crk · Post by **wa2crk** » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:55 pm

Forgot to address the bent way tubes. Before mounting the Power Pro headstock I took measurements with the old headstock from the way tubes to the floor at three positions along the way tubes. There was no noticeable deflection at the center of the way tubes with either of the headstocks.
Is your machine new to you? It may be that someone in the past has stored some heavy objects on the main table while the unit was unused for a long time.
Some sag might be normal due to the method used in manufacturing. I know that Nick Engler recommends that the way tubes be rotated so that the interior welds of the tubes be in the same orientation. That is both welds up or down. This is recommended before installing the lift assist. If the way tubes are indeed bent a lot then I would try a reputable truck repair facility that has a system for straightening driveshafts. It MAY be cheaper than a new set of tubes.
Bill V