Ed in Tampa wrote:Dusty
I'm not against trying to get as accurate as possible. However I use a dial gauge to set my main table not because I believe I need it to be within .001-.002. But I using the dial gauge easier than using a more subjective way like moving the table until a rod pinned in my mitre gauge just touches the saw blade.
I don't own a wixey as such but I do have a Sears electronic torpedeo level. However most often I use an try angle to set the tilt on my saw.
Here is what I believe. You can set the main table on a SS to .000" accuracy and the first time you use the main table to move the shopsmith or even if you don't push on the table but just move your shopsmith variations in the floor and such will change that reading a couple of thousands.
You can set your tilt with a wixey or whatever to .000" accuracy and a slight jarring of the table will change it a couple of thousands.
Now unless you hand picked, hand tuned your blades I imagine there is more .005" difference in runout between them. Add to this the differences in runout between your various arbors and again you find yourself off your original .000" setup.
I'm not picking on SS because this happens on any table saw.
Now throw the wood on the table and make the cut. Unless your fence was .000" tolerance to cut dimension you added another error factor. Also any and all variations in the wood either where the wood meets the blade or where the wood presses against the fence or miter gauge you have more variation.
Then figure in your own ability to hold the wood perfectly against the fence or miter guage and you have more variations. Also consider how well you align the wood up with the blade and your cut mark. Consider the cut mark itself it's width will throw you out of .000" accuracy if everything else was perfect.
What I'm saying is a perfect machine aligned to .000" accuracy, cut with a perfect blade with no runout, will still have a degree of inaccuracy just because of the nature of wood working.
The true craftsman seeing perhaps only the tiniest sliver of light in the joint knows exactly how to finesse it quickly to remove that slight flaw. That is a skill many of us try to compensate for by obessing over how well our machine is built/adjusted.
I submit to you that if it were possible to have a perfect machine with a perfect blade cutting perfect wood there is still a lot of room for craftsmanship.
A craftsman still needs the finesse that many of us have not developed as fully as others.
The difference between what I would call a nicely done piece and a piece done by the craftsman is how well each finessed each joint, each board, each step of finish and etc.
And I submit the craftsman can do such work using a hand saw, $50 bench top or $4000 high end .000" accurate saw.
I have watched craftsman hand rip a board that I don't think I could duplicate the accuracy on my SS. But more importantly I saw him fit (finesse) the board into the project leaving absolutely no gap in the seam.
That is what I try to reproduce often mistakenly by demanding my tools to be .000" accurate instead of developing the patience and skill to just do it.
I spent nearly a half hour writing a rebuttal and then decided that it was like beating my head on the wall. I give up. My Shopsmith equipment all does what I bought it for and that is all that is important.
The wind is blowing so I don't want to open up the shop doors. Given this inconvenience, I decided to check run out and wobble. The drive shaft is as close to perfect as I would expect on a twenty five year old machine. I have less than .003" run out on the quill shaft fully extended. My best (flatest) saw blade measures .004" of wobble. I checked four different saw blade/arbor combinations. The worst was really bad by comparison. It has a wobble of nearly .009".
Has anyone thought that "wobble" on a saw blade doesn't matter one little iota when making thru cuts? This wobble only makes the kerf wider. It a woodworker would set a cutoff distance at the outermost wobble of a wobbling blade, He could make the cutoff VERY accurately.
Octogenarian's have an earned right to be a curmudgeon.
Chuck in Lancaster, CA
I think many of us are.
Although a machine is capable of making it, often times the amount of time to program the machine(s) would exceed the amount time required to make 1 item. I do programming for a living and really don't want to do it in my off time. There are no computers in my shop, and the only thing digital is my digital calipers (they're easier to read).
The main reason for using programmable machines in manufacturing is to repeatably make the same thing many times. or be able to make minor adjustments to the programming to refine the manufacturing design.
The other main reason includes ridiculously tight tolerances which in most cases can't be achieved by hand. Again the definition of "good enough" is in the determination of the tolerances.
--
Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmpX5k8IhN7ahFCo9VvTDsCpoV_g
My pride will say that these 2 can only be done by hand. But, in truth a cnc could cut much of the hall cabinet but the doors, well, that was all hand cut and arranged. Who knows but there was plenty of "good enough" in the arrangement of the trestle legs. They were each hand cut into strips, boiled in a large bag, bent around a form and poly glued.
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Would be a BIG machine to churn out boats the way electric guitars come off the production line.
I wonder if woodworkers from 200 years ago had similar discussions... you young folk, obsessing about what steel your chisels are made of...I do plenty good work with plain old iron...
No, it's not marquetry. All hand painted. Had a thread on here about how it was done. General woodworking section a couple pages in.
As far as the discussion of 200 years ago...I'm right there with you. Guys back then did stuff that we can only strive for. All done with far less complicated tools and steel.
