Idler Shaft, Bearings, and Sheaves

oddie · Post by **oddie** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:19 pm

In a thread on Shopsmith Bearings, in my post #34 I asked some questions about idler bearings. JPG responded but he raised more questions for me. I'm starting this thread to avoid diluting the original discussion.

I don't understand the water pump analogy for the original design of the idler eccentric. Please explain.

I'm rehabing my Redie and want to replace all the bearings. And I'm converting from gilmer to poly. Most of the parts including a 2 bearing quill were part of my purchase.

In my post I said my 500 was of a mixed heritage. I have an A casting. My 3/4 hp Franklin Electric motor's shaft does not have an oil hole. But my control sheave does have one. JPG said SS had redesigned the idler bearing. So with my mixed heritage, I'm not sure what vintage of bearing I have. Look here.

[ATTACH]16715[/ATTACH]

This is a picture of my control sheave.

[ATTACH]16714[/ATTACH]

So, do I have the original or new idler bearing design?

There is an eBayer selling idler and button bearings. Are there any public specs on these two bearings? Are bearings that can be replaced on an existing shaft commercially available?

Or must I buy the entire idler bearing, shaft, eccentric, and idler sheave assembly?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:43 am

oddie wrote:In a thread on Shopsmith Bearings, in my post #34 I asked some questions about idler bearings. JPG responded but he raised more questions for me. I'm starting this thread to avoid diluting the original discussion.

I don't understand the water pump analogy for the original design of the idler eccentric. Please explain.

I'm rehabing my Redie and want to replace all the bearings. And I'm converting from gilmer to poly. Most of the parts including a 2 bearing quill were part of my purchase.

In my post I said my 500 was of a mixed heritage. I have an A casting. My 3/4 hp Franklin Electric motor's shaft does not have an oil hole. But my control sheave does have one. JPG said SS had redesigned the idler bearing. So with my mixed heritage, I'm not sure what vintage of bearing I have. Look here.

[ATTACH]16715[/ATTACH]

This is a picture of my control sheave.

[ATTACH]16714[/ATTACH]

So, do I have the original or new idler bearing design? Original water pump bearing and eccentric sleeve.

There is an eBayer selling idler and button bearings. Are there any public specs on these two bearings? Are bearings that can be replaced on an existing shaft commercially available? Not for the water pump bearing shaft.

Or must I buy the entire idler bearing, shaft, eccentric, and idler sheave assembly?

To use the newer idler shaft/bearing, a new eccentric is also needed. The control sheave(and all other parts attached to the idler shaft) are compatible with both versions. Only the shaft and bearings are different, but the eccentric needs to match the version used.

TTWIUI:)

P.S. Converting from Gilmer to Poly-V requires replacing control sheave, main shaft, and quill(the main shaft and quill splines are different). Not an inexpensive upgrade. A power Pro upgrade may make more sense in the long run! New motor, new idler shaft etc., new main shaft etc., new 2 bearing quill, new belts. Original parts = casting, belt cover, quill shaft advance etc, headstock lock, motor pan. But you seem to have already got the conversion stuff.

oddie · Post by **oddie** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:27 am

Thank you for the quick response. I do have a better understanding of the idler. Since I have the original idler design, could someone post a picture of the new design?

Also, could someone explain the relationship of the original design to a water pump? I don't see how they are similar. My life experience in this area is limited to pump handles at the kitchen sink (my Grandmother) and the magic of running water.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:42 am

oddie wrote:Thank you for the quick response. I do have a better understanding of the idler. Since I have the original idler design, could someone post a picture of the new design?

Also, could someone explain the relationship of the original design to a water pump? I don't see how they are similar. My life experience in this area is limited to pump handles at the kitchen sink (my Grandmother) and the magic of running water.

It has been posted. I'll see if I can locate it.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/cata ... r_note.htm

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:42 am

The relationship is with an Automotive Water Pump and the bearing and shaft used in one. You could try a Google image search on "automotive water pump" and see the similarity.

oddie · Post by **oddie** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:21 am

Thanks to all. I never ever thought of an automotive connection. Throughout all of my brow beating on this issue my only focus was on getting water out of the ground.

BTW when I bought my Redie I also got a box of stuff. This included a 2 bearing poly quill, a poly drive, a nice poly belt (don't think it's new), and a new drive belt. So to complete my conversion I need to deal with the idler. That will take more bucks than I originally considered. I have bought new bearings for the quill and drive and will get new motor bearings when I have Bill Mayo make it reversible. Right now the entire 500 is in total disassembly with pieces parts in boxes, leaning against the wall, or laying on the floor. The headstock is empty. Even the casters are in pieces. The only thing I didn't take apart was the motor itself. It is out of the pan and the spring and sheaves are off. I also found a B casting somewhat cheap.

When I'm done I will no longer have a Redie. It will be your basic Rustoleum Hammered Grey. That assumes I can find the Grey. Haven't found it locally, yet. I've taken lot's of pictures to help with the reassembly. The biggest issue may be using the right set screws in the right places. I have Dusty's chart to help me with that.

Again, thanks.

wiredone · Post by **wiredone** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:29 pm

I've heard of a Greenie, A goldie (also called a brownie) and a grey, but I've not heard of a"redie", until now.
What's that mean?

rpd · Post by **rpd** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:48 pm

wiredone wrote:I've heard of a Greenie, A goldie (also called a brownie) and a grey, but I've not heard of a"redie", until now.
What's that mean?

This should explain all.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=9868

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:00 pm

wiredone wrote:I've heard of a Greenie, A goldie (also called a brownie) and a grey, but I've not heard of a"redie", until now.
What's that mean?

It means the PO(SS or at least a former employee(PO)) painted it red so as to not mistakenly get shipped to a customer.

Now question I have, is WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO REPLACE THE "A" CASTING WITH A "B"? Sure it is rougher. Sure it looks' more crude. Sure is is missing the 'access' hole. But all the bores are the same. And lastly it is HEAVIER(more stout/stronger. . .).

It is MY intention to install a DIY Power Pro upgrade in an "A" casting.

That is my humble view of this!:)