Dusty's Mark 7

[JPG]

I too feel for you.

I have my original purchased new 1976 that has sentimental attachments. It has been upgraded except for the newest things like casters, powerpro, etc. It is still my main go to machine.

If I were to do the powerpro upgrade I don't think that I would upgrade that machine mostly cause it still works so well. Yes it has had a few replacement parts, frankly a lot less then one might guess after so many years.

In fact I purchased my second shopsmith thinking have a backup or spare would be a good idea. It turned out that that was this has been unnecessary but having a second one gave me so many more workability options that I would not want to be without it.

The second machine is in worse shape headstock wise then my first one. It was a basket case when I got it and now I have a fraying belt that needs to be replace, a few other internal parts are near end of life so this headstock would make since to be the one to be upgraded.

The other two machines are in at least as good of shape as my original I'm happy to say.

For me I would not want to get rid of any of my machine but if upgrading were to be in my price range I get the do-it-yourself one and save all/most the parts coming out of the old one as spares. If possible perhaps rebuilding the motor etc in time.

This second machine would them become my main machine.

If this sounds like like I've been thinking about this it is because I have. Baring any jink caused by posting this I may be going this route soon myself. Perhaps as soon as the middle of next month. I will not be able to go full boat on the upgrades but we will see.

I'd also like to see how the new double tilt ends work with the alignment issues. I could even see this being done at sometime later to a second machine if it solves various issues.

Now a real shocker, I might even want to add the red wheels! Most of the time I need wheel my machine out to the driveway to provide enough space to work. I do that now with the small wheels but I could see that making my life easier perhaps.

And yes I have the approval needed, if you know what I mean.

Still a dream so all of this might change in a few weeks.

Ed

What ever happened to the 'you're busted Ed' machine that slipped into a couple of posts a while back?:D They would not let you keep it? Bummer!;)

[algale]

Dusty,
A little while back you offered to contact my wife to tell her I needed a belt sander. Allow me to return the favor. Give me your wife's contact info and I'll let her know that you are getting the PowerPro but that you are keeping the old machines as well for sentimental reasons. Problem solved.
Al

[SDSSmith]

I too feel for you.

I have my original purchased new 1976 that has sentimental attachments. It has been upgraded except for the newest things like casters, powerpro, etc. It is still my main go to machine.

If I were to do the powerpro upgrade I don't think that I would upgrade that machine mostly cause it still works so well. Yes it has had a few replacement parts, frankly a lot less then one might guess after so many years.

In fact I purchased my second shopsmith thinking have a backup or spare would be a good idea. It turned out that that was this has been unnecessary but having a second one gave me so many more workability options that I would not want to be without it.

The second machine is in worse shape headstock wise then my first one. It was a basket case when I got it and now I have a fraying belt that needs to be replace, a few other internal parts are near end of life so this headstock would make since to be the one to be upgraded.

The other two machines are in at least as good of shape as my original I'm happy to say.

For me I would not want to get rid of any of my machine but if upgrading were to be in my price range I get the do-it-yourself one and save all/most the parts coming out of the old one as spares. If possible perhaps rebuilding the motor etc in time.

This second machine would them become my main machine.

If this sounds like like I've been thinking about this it is because I have. Baring any jink caused by posting this I may be going this route soon myself. Perhaps as soon as the middle of next month. I will not be able to go full boat on the upgrades but we will see.

I'd also like to see how the new double tilt ends work with the alignment issues. I could even see this being done at sometime later to a second machine if it solves various issues.

Now a real shocker, I might even want to add the red wheels! Most of the time I need wheel my machine out to the driveway to provide enough space to work. I do that now with the small wheels but I could see that making my life easier perhaps.

And yes I have the approval needed, if you know what I mean.

Still a dream so all of this might change in a few weeks.

Ed

It was a dream for me also. I took advantage of the webinar discount. I suspect the discount is similar to the Lowe's demo discounts and there was no sales tax.

Hopefully, they will have more of the webinars to benefit those folks that do not have the demo's in their areas. I probably would not have bit the bullet without the discount.

[paulmcohen]

I own a Shopsmith because it is the only way to get all those tools physically into the shop, I could never dream of two Shopsmiths. Hearing this discussion I wonder why if people have rooms for so many of them they didn't also get a few standalone tools.

Before I get into an argument I love my Shopsmith but it I had enough room for several of them I would probably own a SawStop because all table-saws scare me.

[robinson46176]

I own a Shopsmith because it is the only way to get all those tools physically into the shop, I could never dream of two Shopsmiths. Hearing this discussion I wonder why if people have rooms for so many of them they didn't also get a few standalone tools.

Before I get into an argument I love my Shopsmith but it I had enough room for several of them I would probably own a SawStop because all table-saws scare me.

Taking the last first... I have no desire at all to own a saw stop saw... I would be standing there during each cut waiting for the stupid thing to miss-read and blow. Sometimes I work up enough sweat to drip on my work. Maybe I get in a hurry and cut a glue-up that still has too much moisture in the wood next to the glue joint. I get nervous enough doing work on the steering column of a vehicle with an air-bag.
I don't care if other folks buy them, I just don't want one. Maybe if he gets the damn thing mandated another set of lawyers will go after him for having a monopoly...
Long term there may well be benefits for all of us come out of the whole mess but rest assured that WE will be paying for it. Most of us that object don't really object to the concept, We object to the obvious greed of one man who has planned from the start to get rich by backing everybody into a corner with no options...


Actually even with my small herd of SS's I do have several stand alone machines.
My Ridgid TS-3650 tablesaw, a 6" long bed jointer, My Foley/Belsaw planer/molder/ripsaw, a couple of belt grinders, a Ridgid belt/spindle sander. I used to have a huge 24" bandsaw that ate a ton of space. So far I haven't wanted to do anything that my SS bandsaw will not do and I consider it a very good saw. Now if I wanted to do a lot of resawing I might want something bigger but then in my own case I would just resaw a big board with my little Wood-Mizer sawmill.
The Shopsmiths are there because of the flexibility and because of the quality. Taking the 6" x 48" belt sander as an example, I absolutely do not consider it to be any kind of a compromise.
My decision to use a number of SS's was carefully considered understanding full well any limitations as well as the advantages. One of those advantages is that even if 2 machines shut down in my shop for some reason my shop is not shut down. If something happened to the one I was using I could just move that set-up to another SS and keep going instead of waiting on repairs on the one that quit.
Another big one is that for most operations I have variable speed always available.

I also just like Shopsmiths.


.

[algale]

Most of us that object don't really object to the concept, We object to the obvious greed of one man who has planned from the start to get rich by backing everybody into a corner with no options...

I see that argument. But I also see the "obvious greed" of the PTI companies, which got together and agreed among themselves that none of them would license Gass' technology expecting that Gass wouldn't be able to bring his own table saw to market, thus "backing everybody into a corner with no option" to obtain a saw with this technology. So, either way, greed is being rewarded.

[robinson46176]

So, either way, greed is being rewarded.

Sadly, it usually is...


.

[dusty]

I see that argument. But I also see the "obvious greed" of the PTI companies, which got together and agreed among themselves that none of them would license Gass' technology expecting that Gass wouldn't be able to bring his own table saw to market, thus "backing everybody into a corner with no option" to obtain a saw with this technology. So, either way, greed is being rewarded.

I hope you don't believe that. I contend that Gass planned from near the getgo to market his own table saw and make a cleaning. In the very beginning he may not have thought that but as soon as it became apparent that PTI members were not going to accept that license fee he envisioned owning a factory. From there, greed took over.

You know, it is strange to me. I believe that if Gass had just brought the SawStop to market and let (allowed) Powermatic, Delta, Jet, Grizzly and all the others simply compete in an open, competitive market this discussion would never have happened and the world would be full of SawStops.

I would not have one but only for the same reason I don't already have my coveted Unisaw. In fact, I might even covet a SawStop more than the Unisaw because I do see the value of flesh detection.

[algale]

I hope you don't believe that. I contend that Gass planned from near the getgo to market his own table saw and make a cleaning. In the very beginning he may not have thought that but as soon as it became apparent that PTI members were not going to accept that license fee he envisioned owning a factory. From there, greed took over.

I do believe that. Now, I do not know what you mean when you say you "contend that Gass planned from near the getgo" to market his own saws, but Gass's testimony from the Osario trial, which I have read, is very clear and is uncontradicted that Gass did not want originally to build anything]foreign[/U] sales. He called Ryobi and Ryobi told him it was a minor error that they would correct and send a revised version for Gass to sign.

4. Another 6 months wnet by. Ryobi told Gass they were going to fix the contract and send it to him to sign. They never did.

5. In mid 2002, three years after inventing the idea and two years after presenting his prototype to Delta, Ryobi and PTI, and some 6 mongths after Ryobi told him to expect a signed, corrected contract that they never sent him, Gass began looking into the idea of having saws built to his own specifications, bringing in investors to do so. In 2003 he signed a contract with a company to manufacture saws to his specifications. Also in 2003, PTI announced they were forming a joint venture to develop their own technology and also told Gass he wasn't welcome to joint their group.

So there you have it.

[dusty]

I have no documented basis to contest your theory of how this all came down. But by your estimates it was sometime in 2002 or maybe 2003 before Gass decided to go it on his own. I don't know how long it has been since the first SawStop came on the market but if he didn't begin the final design for the table saw until after 2002 it came to fruition in a hurry.

But, this is all meaningless speculation on my part and has no impact on anything important and it certainly does not help me make up my mind about when to order from Shopsmith.