Gilmer vs Poly V

tgamel · Post by **tgamel** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:01 am

I would first like to say that after many years I am in the market to get a Shopsmith Mark V, however my budget will not allow a new purchse. My grandfather built two homes with a Mark V, and the one he had was supposed to go to my father and then on to me. However, during his late 70's (unknown to us) he began to exhibit signs of alzhiemers. His disease rapidly progressed and during that time he loaned his Mark V to someone and due to the nature of the disease he could never remember who he loaded it too and it simply disappeared.

Anyway, I found a great PDF file with a checklist and helpful information on purchasing a used Mark V. If the information is correct, prior to 1962 the Mark V used a "Gilmer" drive belt as opposed to the "Poly V" belt, and of course it had the smaller 3/4 hp motor vs the 1 1/8 hp motor. I have seen a lot of beautiful restorations on this site and know there are still quite a few older (prior to 62) models of SS Mark V's out there being used on a daily basis.

If the price and condition for both models is close I would probably buy a model with a larger motor and the "Poly V" belt, but I was curious as to how those who have the older (prior 62) mark 5's feel about their machines. I guess my real question is that if those of you who have and use Mark V's made prior 62 would hold out and buy a Mark V with the larger motor and "Poly V" belt. And, do you think if I found a nice machine made prior to 1962, that I would be disappointed with it's performance as opposed to models made after 1962? I realize there is a lot of supposition there, but I have heard the "Gilmer" drive belt was less forgiving and the smaller 3/4 motor can bog down. Any opinions and experiences of guys using the older Mark 5's would be appreciated.

I am just a hobbyist with minimal woodworking skills but am an able carpenter. I have moved to a new home in the last 5 years and my shop has a small footprint as opposed to the garage I used to have, so I think the SS would be perfect for me. Hoping to buy a machine in the next 30 to 60 days and any information of ideas ya'll have would once again be appreciated. Thanks.

Todd

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed May 23, 2012 1:36 am

Consider the 'fact' that ANY of the Mark 5's can be upgraded to the new powerpro as well as the later Mark V's. If cost is close obviously go for the later version, but if as you said, your woodworking skills are 'limited', the Gilmer version will probably be adequate until greater 'skill'/projects require the later version or the powerpro upgrade.

Do realize there are different Mark V versions and they are also 'more desirable'.

wa2crk · Post by **wa2crk** » Wed May 23, 2012 8:06 am

Hi Todd and welcome to the forum.
There are several machines on E-Bay at this time. I would opt for the Poly drive and one with the larger table which is identified by a worktable the has a red insert and ribs in the table surface.
The parts availability of the poly v drive may be longer and used parts would be more readily available. My opinion of course.
All major upgrades produced by SS are backwards compatible as a general rule.
Can you edit your profile with your location? You never know when another member is lurking right around the corner and may be able to give you some advice.
Bill V

letterk · Post by **letterk** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:44 am

Watch Sawdust Session #21 - Shopsmith Reborn, Part 1: Bargain or Basket Case?

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Sawdust_Sessions.htm[quote][/QUOTE]

Here is a 5 page list of what to look for that is referenced in the video. It's a good refence to take with you when looking at machines.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rk%20V.pdf

Craigslist is a good place if you live near a bigger city. Unless you are looking for an older one like grandpa had, the difference in price for the newer (1985 or newer) machines may be minimal. I'm pretty sure from my experience many Shopsmith users love to stock up on parts and accessories that they just never get around to using. The bonus is how much extra stuff comes along with the machine.

My last machine came with a Forrest Dado (new $200+) and a Forrest WW1 blade ($100), plus about probably another $1,000-1,500 (retail value) of accessories.

Parts are still available from Shopsmith and the Sawdust Session along with the sticky posting in maintenance and repair will help you avoid the major issues, many which can be fixed with a little work. Plus the regulars here know the machine inside and out and can help you with the trickiest problems. How many companies do you know that give you a manual to fix your machine and offer a customer service line to help you too. Sign up for the special email, you never know what might go on sale that you need.

Sticky Link

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=7092

terrydowning · Post by **terrydowning** » Wed May 23, 2012 12:26 pm

In response to the original question.
Mine is a 1955 Mark 5 with original Gilmer drive and 3/4 HP motor.
I have yet to run into a situation where this machine was not up to the task.

When I have experienced "Bogging" down I find it is always my own fault. Misalignment of the fence, wrong speed selected, feed rate too high, dull or dirty blade. These are operator errors and not design flaws in the machine.

I recently did a bearing replacement and repaint and it's like new in terms of performance. Don't shy away from the older ones just because of their age. If they are in decent condition, they can be revived for about $50 in parts and a few hours of work. The only bearing I could not easily replace was the idler bearing. I skipped that one as it seemed to be functional. All other bearings (2 drive bearings, 2 motor bearings, 1 quill bearing) were replaced tough.

wiredone · Post by **wiredone** » Wed May 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Let us know where you reside, so that we can help you find the right tool.
Networking is a wonderful thing sometimes, but only if you fill in some profile info.

mgdesigns · Post by **mgdesigns** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:44 pm

If you find a suitable SS MK V base and need a headstock, I have a '55 Greenie that needs one part (the front sheave half on the motor - or maybe a matched pair - about $35 used), I can sell the headstock cheap, because I replaced with a 1989 (12-30-89, to be exact). Let me know.

BTW: I paid $250 for the whole setup including band saw, and I've got about $1000 including all of the accessories, and that's some pricey bowl gouges, and other woodworking tools, Ridgid ROSS, and PC router and a lot of bits. It adds up, but I can make some pretty handy things (guitars, cabinets, etc.). The SS has been on my mind since the old infommercials of the '80s. When my physical therapy for rotator cuff surgery is all done, I'll be turning and making sawdust a plenty.

tgamel · Post by **tgamel** » Wed May 23, 2012 9:52 pm

wa2crk wrote:Hi Todd and welcome to the forum.
There are several machines on E-Bay at this time. I would opt for the Poly drive and one with the larger table which is identified by a worktable the has a red insert and ribs in the table surface.
The parts availability of the poly v drive may be longer and used parts would be more readily available. My opinion of course.
All major upgrades produced by SS are backwards compatible as a general rule.
Can you edit your profile with your location? You never know when another member is lurking right around the corner and may be able to give you some advice.
Bill V

Thanks, filled out the profile, I live in East Texas, a few machines in the DFW area, condition seems to vary as would be expected as does price.

tgamel · Post by **tgamel** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:04 pm

letterk wrote:Watch Sawdust Session #21 - Shopsmith Reborn, Part 1: Bargain or Basket Case?

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/Sawdust_Sessions.htm

Here is a 5 page list of what to look for that is referenced in the video. It's a good refence to take with you when looking at machines.

http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Arch ... rk%20V.pdf

Craigslist is a good place if you live near a bigger city. Unless you are looking for an older one like grandpa had, the difference in price for the newer (1985 or newer) machines may be minimal. I'm pretty sure from my experience many Shopsmith users love to stock up on parts and accessories that they just never get around to using. The bonus is how much extra stuff comes along with the machine.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=7092

I have watched all the sawdust sessions, very informative, especially the three part maintenance series that he did on what looks like a goldie. I do not have to have an older machine (Gilmer Drive), just curious that if i found one in good shape at a reasonable price would I later wish I had waited for one with a "Poly V" drive. My thinking was that if I found a Gilmer belt drive in good condition or better than any Poly V's around and price was comparable I would probably by the older machine.

I am not sure what my grandfather had, but I am thinking it was a Gilmer drive machine as he built his first home in the early 60's. My mother's house is full of beautiful furniture that he built with it so I know all versions of the Mark V can produce excellent pieces, it is only the skill of the woodworker that will limit it's potential.

tgamel · Post by **tgamel** » Wed May 23, 2012 10:25 pm

terrydowning wrote:In response to the original question.
Mine is a 1955 Mark 5 with original Gilmer drive and 3/4 HP motor.
I have yet to run into a situation where this machine was not up to the task.

When I have experienced "Bogging" down I find it is always my own fault. Misalignment of the fence, wrong speed selected, feed rate too high, dull or dirty blade. These are operator errors and not design flaws in the machine.

I recently did a bearing replacement and repaint and it's like new in terms of performance. Don't shy away from the older ones just because of their age. If they are in decent condition, they can be revived for about $50 in parts and a few hours of work. The only bearing I could not easily replace was the idler bearing. I skipped that one as it seemed to be functional. All other bearings (2 drive bearings, 2 motor bearings, 1 quill bearing) were replaced tough.

Yea, saw your beautiful black and silver paint job that you did over the old pale blue Mark V yesterday when looking at all the restorations people have done on here. Really nice, there are some beautiful paint jobs on some of those older machines. I think it is really cool when a machine can be restored to working order. I have seen a few Mark V's in the DFW that look really worse for wear and the prices seem to be comparable to machines that look much nicer. Course the proof is in the function. Cosmetic work is far easier to do than a major overall, at least for me it would be.

Glad you are liking your Gilmer drive, had I not watched the sawdust sessions and read his PDF file I would have never known that there were two different types of drives. As someone who has limited knowledge reagrading the different drive types, I was suprised at the comments regarding the purchase of older Gilmer drive machines. My impression was that he was basically saying stay away from them. That may not have been his intent, but that was the impression that i came away with after watching the videos.