Noisy Band Saw Bearings

videobear · Post by **videobear** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:41 pm

That fixture appears to put zero side load on the bearing. Could it be a side load that causes the squeal?

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:26 pm

I'm stumped too, Dusty! A short while back I was going over my bandsaw to see if I could fine anything out of order. I had purchased a new set of bearings from Shopsmith. When the re-assembled bandsaw was put into service, there was noise coming from the new bearings. I replaced the new bearings I had used in the "auto track backup" location with the old ones and the noise stopped. This is the two bearings - Part number 514011 or # 56 in the exploded illustration.

To the best of my knowledge there is nothing wrong with either set of bearings. One set up a howling the other ran quietly.

By the way - When first getting the new bandsaw, it ran just fine but did howl some. Mine never did make a noise like a squeal.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:40 pm

videobear wrote:That fixture appears to put zero side load on the bearing. Could it be a side load that causes the squeal?

When doing the tests, I applied some pressure on the bearing to simulate the side loading effect. I didn't expect very much pressure was required since the only real world loading is pressure applied by the back edge of the bandsaw blade.

I tested nine different bearings and found only one that I would not call good.

PS: I put some of these back in a band saw and had to remove them - too noisy.

dlbristol · Post by **dlbristol** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:55 pm

I have a "howl"in mine Band saw as well. I have done the tune up process(several time) as outlined in the book and can't get it to stop. I have been able to lessen it, only to have it get worse when I tried to further reduce the noise.

I still have no idea what it it, where it comes from or why it is happening. I wonder if there can be something like a resonation in the whole saw that makes one small issue become a bigger sound. I have no issue with how the saw works, but it is noisy. sympathetic resonance can make things like that happen, but I am not smart enough to find out what it is. I tried " adjusting" one thing at a time and could not find one thing that worked, but doing a complete tune up may or may not help and you have no idea what changed. keep working on it, I am listening!

backhertz · Post by **backhertz** » Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:36 pm

I spent several years working with bearings many years ago at a roller rink years ago. Sealed bearings over time can go dry. Just changing the plane a bearing spins does not surprise me as the balls may not be touching the same surface of the inner/outer bearing race surfaces.

We tried all type of methods to lubricate/prolong the bearing life, but typically replacement with all new bearings was the only sure way to ensure better performance. Some bearings would appear to be perfect in every way, until a load was put on them- like a person's body weight on a pair of roller skates. Or maybe pressure against a guide bearing?

I also maintained huge magnetic tape drives that used 20 lb flywheels on the tape capstans. These were large drives had intermittent errors. If you spun the flywheel by hand, everything was okay. For giggles and grins I removed a flywheel and tried to spin the capstan- it would not spin on its own! But put the flywheel back on he capstan, it would spin okay. I ended up replacing all the bearings on all the drives & never had another problem.

With roller skates, we switched to Fafnir bearings and 9 times out of 10 things would be fine and the bearings would last, but it was costly. Honda had a problem some years ago in the distributor bearing going dry, seizing up, and end up causing major repair bills as the timing belt and the distributor were replaced because Honda has switched to bearing supplier who had metal seals resulting in the lube leaking out. Fix? Honda switched to bearings with a neoprene seals- no more metal seals & no more problems. Unfortunately, Honda never recalled Accords & Civics with the defective bearings...the 1990-94 models.

Bearing technology has dramatically changed over the last 40 years. There are now all ceramic bearings, hybrid bearings, steel bearings, and all kinds of special lubricants that permit 30,000 or more RPM. Bearings with ABEC ratings higher than 3, I understand can result in better bearing performance.

I suggest replacing the questionable bearing(s) & see the result. I'm not sure what bearings Shopsmith is using. That's about all I know about bearings other than if you ever see reddish powder around a bearing- count yourself lucky if you find it before it seizes which doesn't happen often unless a person practices periodic preventive maintenance.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:51 am

dlbristol wrote:I have a "howl"in mine Band saw as well. I have done the tune up process(several time) as outlined in the book and can't get it to stop. I have been able to lessen it, only to have it get worse when I tried to further reduce the noise. I still have no idea what it it, where it comes from or why it is happening. I wonder if there can be something like a resonation in the whole saw that makes one small issue become a bigger sound. I have no issue with how the saw works, but it is noisy. sympathetic resonance can make things like that happen, but I am not smart enough to find out what it is. I tried " adjusting" one thing at a time and could not find one thing that worked, but doing a complete tune up may or may not help and you have no idea what changed. keep working on it, I am listening!

I would bet that you have a noisy auto-track bearing]DO NOT OPERATE THE BANDSAW[/color] with the Auto-Track bearing removed. However, you can stop the Auto-Trac from spinning by very carefully reaching in behind the bearing and applying finger pressure to the bearing. If you choose to do this, BE CAREFUL.

Bottom Line: the Shopsmith Bandsaw will never be really quiet. By design, it is rather noisy to operate but it should not squeal, howl or screech.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:52 am

backhertz wrote:I spent several years working with bearings many years ago at a roller rink years ago. Sealed bearings over time can go dry. Just changing the plane a bearing spins does not surprise me as the balls may not be touching the same surface of the inner/outer bearing race surfaces.

We tried all type of methods to lubricate/prolong the bearing life, but typically replacement with all new bearings was the only sure way to ensure better performance. Some bearings would appear to be perfect in every way, until a load was put on them- like a person's body weight on a pair of roller skates. Or maybe pressure against a guide bearing?

I also maintained huge magnetic tape drives that used 20 lb flywheels on the tape capstans. These were large drives had intermittent errors. If you spun the flywheel by hand, everything was okay. For giggles and grins I removed a flywheel and tried to spin the capstan- it would not spin on its own! But put the flywheel back on he capstan, it would spin okay. I ended up replacing all the bearings on all the drives & never had another problem.

With roller skates, we switched to Fafnir bearings and 9 times out of 10 things would be fine and the bearings would last, but it was costly. Honda had a problem some years ago in the distributor bearing going dry, seizing up, and end up causing major repair bills as the timing belt and the distributor were replaced because Honda has switched to bearing supplier who had metal seals resulting in the lube leaking out. Fix? Honda switched to bearings with a neoprene seals- no more metal seals & no more problems. Unfortunately, Honda never recalled Accords & Civics with the defective bearings...the 1990-94 models.

Bearing technology has dramatically changed over the last 40 years. There are now all ceramic bearings, hybrid bearings, steel bearings, and all kinds of special lubricants that permit 30,000 or more RPM. Bearings with ABEC ratings higher than 3, I understand can result in better bearing performance.

I suggest replacing the questionable bearing(s) & see the result. I'm not sure what bearings Shopsmith is using. That's about all I know about bearings other than if you ever see reddish powder around a bearing- count yourself lucky if you find it before it seizes which doesn't happen often unless a person practices periodic preventive maintenance.

While it may be true that bearing technology has changed, the Shopsmith recommended bearings for use in the bandsaw have not. Some users have made changes and some have apparently been successful.

It does seem as though there must be a better way to go. The life expectancy, based on my own experience, for these bearings is rather short - measured in months not years.

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:54 am

An easy way to determine which bearing is the noisy one when the bandsaw is set-up properly (two bearings in contact with the blade while running and the third only contacting when cutting) is to use the shaft of a screwdriver or something similar and simply press the blade forward gently from behind so that the bearing below the table is no longer touching the blade while the saw is running. If the noise goes away, it's the bearing below the table. Otherwise, it's the one on the left side of the saw.

Don't press on the back of the blade so hard that you force it out of the guides and off the wheel.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:46 am

dusty wrote:I would bet that you have a noisy auto-track bearing]DO NOT OPERATE THE BANDSAW[/color] with the Auto-Track bearing removed. However, you can stop the Auto-Trac from spinning by very carefully reaching in behind the bearing and applying finger pressure to the bearing. If you choose to do this, BE CAREFUL.

Bottom Line: the Shopsmith Bandsaw will never be really quiet. By design, it is rather noisy to operate but it should not squeal, howl or screech.

This is not a bearing issue/question but it arose while I was working on the bearings.

What is the nylon screw for. I find no reference to this screw in the manual. I have tinkered with it and it seems to effect the Upper Guide Height Lock feature.

[ATTACH]18519[/ATTACH]

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:13 am

dusty wrote:This is not a bearing issue/question but it arose while I was working on the bearings.

What is the nylon screw for. I find no reference to this screw in the manual. I have tinkered with it and it seems to effect the Upper Guide Height Lock feature.

[ATTACH]18519[/ATTACH]

I believe this has been discussed before and it was determined it was an adjustment on the upper blade guard to keep if from free falling down and also to steady it.