Outfeed Table; Tilting and Height Adjustable

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm

Hi Dusty,

Looks like you made some more progress sence we last discussed this!

It is not clear to me where the twist or turn takes places when the table tilts... maybe you could explain that part. Or maybe I just missed it??

Anyway it good to see you kept with it.

Ed

reible · Post by **reible** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:28 pm

Hi,

You mentioned ebay plans, does anyone have the link or do I need to just dig through the listing?

As was mentioned in some way back when posts someone was selling one of these maybe like in 2003 or so. The posted pictures were such that you could not see how they did it... Then the listing just stopped. (May have gotten into copyright/trade name problems with Shopsmith???) Anyway I'd like to see if it is the same photos, taken in a garage with a SUV parked outside and LOTs of light coming in the door.

Anyway if someone can point the way that would be great other wise I have a project for tomorrow.

Ed

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:55 pm

http://cgi.ebay.com/Outfeed-Table-for-Shopsmith-Users_W0QQitemZ320227531716QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0803130917a11205

This person isn't too terribly proud of their work; they have to keep it under the sheets, so to speak.

reible · Post by **reible** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:07 am

[quote="dusty"]http://cgi.ebay.com/Outfeed-Table-for-Shopsmith-Users_W0QQitemZ320227531716QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0803130917a11205

This person isn't too terribly proud of their work]

Thanks Dusty, but this one is attached such that it will go up and down with the table or allow the table to tilt. The sole advantage it has is that it done not have a leg going to the floor so it will travel with the machine...

It it also not the the one I had seen before which did claim to change heights with the machine.

Oh well....

Ed

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:13 am

Hi Dusty,
I hope that I am not being to presumptuous with these suggestions:

dusty wrote:The table top is just a piece of plywood. I used that for the prototype. The finished table will be a bit thicker and made with something with a smoother surface. Something that can be waxed. Then I will route in the clearance slots for the miter bar.

Plywood is a good choice, it is available pretty thick for subflooring ( I am aware of 1-1/8" thick) and is easy to cover with laminate.

Right now the miter bar rides above the table top surface.

I had wondered if the outfeed table wasn't lower then the SS table.

I also must decide the size. I tend to oversize everything like this so I need to do a bit of study.

The width looks good as you have it: It needs to be at least as wide as is required for your brackets to mount properly. The length is subject to a few things, some of which are]

So I guess you could say that I am still "klugging" it.

I could also have you think about this

: I know that you are trying to devise a method that the outfeed table moves with the main table, and for that reason the support leg mounts to the Mark V rather then going down to the floor. Why couldn't you have an additional (adjustable) leg that does go to the floor for the purpose of supporting the additional weight. This would be similar to the (optional) adjustable leg that SS makes available for drill press (or other use) mode. You would not rely on it for positioning the table, just for support of the weight. That would compensate for the off-balance condition of the Mark V for adding the outfeed table. What do you think?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:26 am

Several different people have commented about the weight throwing off the center of gravity or causing the machine to tip.

I don't sense that to be a problem; some of the weight is transferred back to directly below the machine by the support bar. The machine seems stable while using it for normal table saw use and I often use it as a work surface - with parts, hand tools,etc.

Now I haven't and won't set a tool box or anything really heavy there.

reible · Post by **reible** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:54 am

a1gutterman wrote:Hi Dusty,
I hope that I am not being to presumptuous with these suggestions:

I could also have you think about this: I know that you are trying to devise a method that the outfeed table moves with the main table, and for that reason the support leg mounts to the Mark V rather then going down to the floor. Why couldn't you have an additional (adjustable) leg that does go to the floor for the purpose of supporting the additional weight. This would be similar to the (optional) adjustable leg that SS makes available for drill press (or other use) mode. You would not rely on it for positioning the table, just for support of the weight.

Once you have a joint at the extension table front then adding a support at the rear will not help. The table folds and the shopsmith tips......

EDIT

After thinking about this I was picturing something other then what you were saying. If the adjustable leg is tight to the floor/ground then this would help. I was picturing the leg just hanging below to catch it if it starts to fall... that will not work, or at least it would be questionable depending on a lot of factors.

But if you add the leg(s) then you defeat the idea and might as well just use them.

This is a problem that I find very serious with this design and why I have not been working on it. I did a back of the envelope est. and came up with something in the 80 pound range for the rig I put together. I never attemped to test because I have no intention of dumping my shopsmith in the name of science.

That would compensate for the off-balance condition of the Mark V for adding the outfeed table. What do you think?

I have made several attemps to solve several problems I saw in my prototype. I have solved all of those except for a easy way to keep the machine upright if the table end is overloaded. There must be 50 ways of doing it but they are not how shall I put it... elegant, or too elegant (a double 4 bar linkage).

The major flaw on mine was the location of the turning point of the support when the table tilted. To be honest I was thinking I do so little work with the table tilted it wouldn't matter to me but then I know that is just not good engineering.

The sumulations show what happen on my prototype and then the correction.

[ATTACH]1100[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]1101[/ATTACH]

How to see how bad this looks after conversion......

Ed

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:43 am

reible wrote:Once you have a joint at the extension table front then adding a support at the rear will not help. The table folds and the shopsmith tips......
Ed

I see what you mean.

I did not think about the table folding at the connection to the Mark V location.

So, then the solution might be to put out-riggers on the Mark V. Something bolted to the legs perhaps, extending out along the floor, past the legs a couple of feet, with adjustable feet..............hmmm. I can visualize more then one way to do this. And Dusty's outfeed table design wood (sp) work in perfect harmony. It's coming to me, albeit slowly.

Thanks Ed, for pointing out my obvious wrong thinking.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:43 pm

I remember an outfeed table that used a bicycle fork into the bottom of the back table leg (tube). The swivel joint was used at the back of the out feed table in line with the trunnion tilt line. I believe that an adjustable leg was used between the the swivel and the bicycle fork. Once the proper leg length is determined, a fixed pipe could be used in place of the adjustable leg. I believe the handlebar part of the fork was sawed off and the remaining part was inserted into the leg or pipe. I only noticed the post because the outfeed table raised and lowered with the main table and could be tilted with the main table.

Bill Mayo

ldh · Post by **ldh** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:06 pm

A few weeks back I posted some pics of the outfeed table design that I have been building for my Mark V 500 machines over the years. I have started to switch over to the 520 table setup on all of my machines, so it is time to think about a design for the 520. Here is what I have found over the years in building outfeed tables and I think it will hold true for the 520.

1. Don't build it too heavy, 1/2" Baltic birch ply laminated with formica and reinforced only where necessary.
2. Don't expect the outfeed table to be lifted with the Shopsmith main table, you have plenty to lift and adjust with just the Shopsmith table.
3. Attach the outfeed table to the Shopsmith main table after all adjustment has been made to the Shopsmith main table. I rarely make more than a slight adjustment after the table is attached.
4. Use a single adjustable leg on the outfeed table, if you are concerned about tipping your Shopsmith your are frankly putting more material (weight) on the Shopsmith than you or your Shopsmith should handle.

I am in the process of drawing up plans for my tables at this time and when I finish construction I will post some pics.

ldh