3 Issues: jamed chips-rubber spacer & end cuts on jointer

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:42 pm

This past week, ran across the answers to three issues recently discussed in this Forum. I couldn't find the related threads (think they are mixed into others), so here are the issues and a solution to the first along with an observation/answer to the second and third.

Issue 1) Sawdust piles into and compacts beneath the feed table of the SS Jointer.
Solution: Using the long 5/32" allen wrench, poke at the sawdust from the depth guage side while vacuuming from the other. The crammed in chips will easily all come out. This operation takes less than one minute!

Issue 2) What is the value/purpose of the rubber spacer tube residing on one of the way tubes? Just how accurate is it in determining the placement of the saw blade in relation to the table?
Observation: In cutting the shoulders for multiple tenons (16 of them had to be cut at 1 13/16"), I had previously crosscut 4 of the long pieces a little long. Thinking that these thru tenons would stick out of the mortised leg a little longer, no foul! That would be kind of neat! Besides, the crosscut didn't have to be so accurate!
Whoops! , Now, finally, I discovered the tenons themselves had to be a mite longer.

Quandary: Was this going to require a new setting for the rip fence (and the necessary multiple trial cuts? Or should I destroy my depth setting (adjustable stop collar) and trim 1/64" from both tenon ends, or trim 1/32" from one end and re-cut just those ends?

Instead, I tried moving the headstock to the left, and back in to position, by pushing pretty hard on the headstock. The distance from the fence always worked out to be the same. Thinking "hey this spacer is rubber, it should give a bit", I put enough pressure on the headstock to actually scoot the Mark V across the concrete floor.
Result: I managed to get the saw blade 1/64" further away from the fence. Perfect for my purpose!

This rubber spacer is pretty darned accurate for repeated cuts. I can't hardly get the saw blade to register in a different position!

Issue 3) Can I make end cuts on the jointer?
Yes you can, and it works wonderfully well! I might not have thought of this solution had it not been for that question being asked on the forum recently. The boards are 6" wide. Minimal for jointing.

Problem: I cut the two back aprons for my tables at 17 1/4" according to plans. Only after I had cut the tenons and compared the length of the other front and back tenon shoulders, did I realize the mistake. It was in the plans!

Solution: Rather than re-set the saw depth and trim off a quarter inch, I elected to do the trimming with the jointer. Removing only about 1/32" at a pass, I was able to do this job. (4 passes and a very small final pass) The jointer caused only a very small chip out at the tail end of the cuts. The chip out was about the same as would be produced by a semi sharp saw blade.

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:24 am

So Chuck,
You were a detective in another life, right?

reible · Post by **reible** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:20 am

charlese wrote:This past week, ran across the answers to three issues recently discussed in this Forum. I couldn't find the related threads (think they are mixed into others), so here are the issues and a solution to the first along with an observation/answer to the second and third.

Issue 1) Sawdust piles into and compacts beneath the feed table of the SS Jointer.
Solution: Using the long 5/32" allen wrench, poke at the sawdust from the depth guage side while vacuuming from the other. The crammed in chips will easily all come out. This operation takes less than one minute!

Issue 2) What is the value/purpose of the rubber spacer tube residing on one of the way tubes? Just how accurate is it in determining the placement of the saw blade in relation to the table?
Observation: In cutting the shoulders for multiple tenons (16 of them had to be cut at 1 13/16"), I had previously crosscut 4 of the long pieces a little long. Thinking that these thru tenons would stick out of the mortised leg a little longer, no foul! That would be kind of neat! Besides, the crosscut didn't have to be so accurate!
Whoops! , Now, finally, I discovered the tenons themselves had to be a mite longer.

Quandary: Was this going to require a new setting for the rip fence (and the necessary multiple trial cuts? Or should I destroy my depth setting (adjustable stop collar) and trim 1/64" from both tenon ends, or trim 1/32" from one end and re-cut just those ends?

Instead, I tried moving the headstock to the left, and back in to position, by pushing pretty hard on the headstock. The distance from the fence always worked out to be the same. Thinking "hey this spacer is rubber, it should give a bit", I put enough pressure on the headstock to actually scoot the Mark V across the concrete floor.
Result: I managed to get the saw blade 1/64" further away from the fence. Perfect for my purpose!

Hi Chuck,

Interesting observation. I have been working on a method of establishing a datum and did a series of test that amounted to moving the main table and headstock this way and that way then returning them to the location created by the spacer. I did this in a random way without attempting to hold the postion of the pieces in reference to anything. The purpose was to establish if I could always get back to the datum.

The results that I got were a bit off from your number but then you attemped to move the two closer while I was just looking for differences between various readings. (Ya that dumb dial indicator starts you doing all sorts of crazy stuff). Anyway by doing this I found I was not happy with the precission.

I experimented with somethings and came up with a way of getting back to a datum within a few thousands. But the problem then became the fact that blades vary in width of cut. Well without getting in to a lot of details this problem has prevented me from doing what I was hoping to do.

However I had not thought about the case you mentioned and what you did makes a lot of sence. Getting closer is of course harder then getting farther away (reference to headstock/table). It also reminds me I have not finished this project. Now I have to add that to my list of todos.

This rubber spacer is pretty darned accurate for repeated cuts. I can't hardly get the saw blade to register in a different position!

Issue 3) Can I make end cuts on the jointer?
Yes you can, and it works wonderfully well! I might not have thought of this solution had it not been for that question being asked on the forum recently. The boards are 6" wide. Minimal for jointing.

I remember the post and I think Nick even showed it somewhere along the line and I think I may have posted the link to the PTWFE and yes I have done it too. You can attempt to get rid of the chip out if you know you are going to do this by doing the ends first then the edges, just like with a router. In fact you might have wanted to use a route with a backer block and ended up with no chip out... just another idea to keep in the back of your head.

Problem: I cut the two back aprons for my tables at 17 1/4" according to plans. Only after I had cut the tenons and compared the length of the other front and back tenon shoulders, did I realize the mistake. It was in the plans!

Solution: Rather than re-set the saw depth and trim off a quarter inch, I elected to do the trimming with the jointer. Removing only about 1/32" at a pass, I was able to do this job. (4 passes and a very small final pass) The jointer caused only a very small chip out at the tail end of the cuts. The chip out was about the same as would be produced by a semi sharp saw blade.

Thanks for the post!

Ed

kd6vpe · Post by **kd6vpe** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:39 am

Charlese,
Thank you for this infomation. I was so happy to see that my jointer issue is common. This also tells me that maybe I have higher exepectations for my dust collection in not having any chips left to cleanup after and this may not be true.

curiousgeorge · Post by **curiousgeorge** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:12 pm

This also tells me that maybe I have higher exepectations for my dust collection in not having any chips left to cleanup after and this may not be true.

Hi Jim,
IMHO, a lot of people have the misconception that a dust collector should pick up everything. If you look at the name "Dust Collector" and take it literally you will see that it is meant primarily for just that... dust, not chip collection. Yes, it will pick up a lot of the chips but is supposed to be for collecting the fine dust to help keep the air in the shop cleaner. For just chip collection, and in some cases dust, a shop vacuum works better.

I have probably opened a can of worms here, but it's just my opinion.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:59 pm

Your reply was interesting, Ed! Glad it caught your eye!

There must be a difference between measurements with a dial indicator - and measuring with a piece of wood.

Duh!
I suspect there is a thousandths or so variation in the teeth of the blade, let alone any bends in the blades themselves. That's why table alignment using the dial indicator is done using only one tooth on the blade. I agree, one of those little meters can cause one to have nightmares! I think I agree with you about what to do with your dial indicator. (reference previous posts from the past week) It's probably best to leave the dial indicator in the drawer, until you need a new alignment.

About the chip out on the tail end of the tenons - - This chip out was very small - the kind you can remove with your finger nail and don't extend up the edge by more than 3/16". As I hadn't yet cut the edges of the tenons yet, I wasn't at all concerned about the chip out, but was surprised by the small amount. If concerned, I would have chamfered the edges.

Here's hoping your weather turns to Spring soon!

kd6vpe · Post by **kd6vpe** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:20 pm

Thank you for the knowledge. I am learning so much about woodworking from here. I thank all of you. It really is a fun hobby. I just took a branch from the ice storm and decided to turn it and see what would happen its spalted and really pretty. Wow this is fun.

paul269 · Post by **paul269** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:07 am

Charlese,

As far as jointing the end grain is concerned it is possible to chip out or splinter the trailing edge as it passes over the knives. To avoid the chip out joint the first inch then flip the piece around and joint the rest of the piece. To prevent the piece from rocking make sure there is sufficient downward pressure on the out feed side.

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:12 am

Hey! Yeah!:D Thanks Paul! That would work! Thanks! Didn't think of that. Just a quarter inch, or even less, would work. Next time I'll do that:)

Like I said, wasn't worried about any amount of chip out in this case, as the tenons were still the full width of the boards and needed to be trimmed off on the edges.