Some details on Nova G3 adapter(s)

[trainguytom]

I noted at a couple of points during this discussion that the lock screw angle that matches the taper thing was mentioned and while, logically, it makes sense, I'm thinking (in my already mentioned simple minded way) is this some huge deal?
My adapter (and all my other Shopsmith accessories) have a set screw hole at right angles to the shaft, and my lathe chuck & all the other stuff stay mounted just fine.
Am I missing something else. Do other guys' chucks loosen up...come off?

[reible]

I noted at a couple of points during this discussion that the lock screw angle that matches the taper thing was mentioned and while, logically, it makes sense, I'm thinking (in my already mentioned simple minded way) is this some huge deal?
My adapter (and all my other Shopsmith accessories) have a set screw hole at right angles to the shaft, and my lathe chuck & all the other stuff stay mounted just fine.
Am I missing something else. Do other guys' chucks loosen up...come off?

You might find this post of interest.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=9990

I had nothing but trouble with my adapter. They had specked the "fit" wrong between the thread and the setscrew, the setscrew was too short, it was at 90 degrees.... and worst of all I did not feel safe using it because the set screw would come loose...... I re-drilled and tapped to use a standard shopsmith size and to add the angle (guess of about 3 degrees, ie the same as the saw arbor and it now works the way I expected it to.

I can not say how other fared of if the problems was ever solved by the manufacturer but the one I got was a big dud and unsafe at any speed over 0. I know other experienced issues when I was having mine and some replace this one with another manufactures model the is visual identical to the PSI but costs more then double (at that time).

The fix was simple and I think a complete success.

Ed

[trainguytom]

I didn't check the angle close enough to note a 3 deg difference. Maybe there is & I never looked close enough. (remember, simple mind...uncluttered with details like a few degrees plus/minus)
I suppose if I just steered clear of the posts that look too detailed, I could spend more time in the shop.
It's kinda like with runout. I have never really checked/measured it because the results of my working with all of my Smiths have been just fine. Stuff fits together & lines up, so why measure. And while I've learned a bunch of stuff here today, nothing's changed in my shop. I think I'll try to leave the details to the detail guys.
I suspect, human nature being what it is, broad overview guys like me kind of irritate detail people. So I'll finish with a little poem I just wrote:

I measured to a sixty forth,
I thought it was enough.
I turned and faced magnetic north,
I thought it was enough.
But the map I made was somewhat rough,
It made my journey really tough,
As my rocket hummed a merry tune
My errors made me miss the moon

[dusty]

I didn't check the angle close enough to note a 3 deg difference. Maybe there is & I never looked close enough. (remember, simple mind...uncluttered with details like a few degrees plus/minus)
I suppose if I just steered clear of the posts that look too detailed, I could spend more time in the shop.
It's kinda like with runout. I have never really checked/measured it because the results of my working with all of my Smiths have been just fine. Stuff fits together & lines up, so why measure. And while I've learned a bunch of stuff here today, nothing's changed in my shop. I think I'll try to leave the details to the detail guys.
I suspect, human nature being what it is, broad overview guys like me kind of irritate detail people. So I'll finish with a little poem I just wrote:

I measured to a sixty forth,
I thought it was enough.
I turned and faced magnetic north,
I thought it was enough.
But the map I made was somewhat rough,
It made my journey really tough,
As my rocket hummed a merry tune
My errors made me miss the moon

Very good. You made your point.

Just remember that when you become dissatisfied with the outcome of your work, alignment may be the cause. As long as you are satisfied, every thing is hunky dory.

[backhertz]

Super pics and a nice Xmas tree ornament! Great work in doing what needed to be done to make the G3 work. I think the pics are the proof of the pudding. I'm surprised I hadn't seen Ed's adapter modification before.

It seems like this 'dead horse' thread has revealed info on the G3 that the other threads didn't cover on the G3. It only takes one injury to hurt a manufacturer's reputation/pocketbook where it can really hurt. Oddly, several adapters were being provided to people with the G3 and still might be depending on which company someone ordered from.

My first adapter was a Type D. I started making calls & learned I had the wrong adapter for use on a Mark V/7. Then it only got complicated, but now all is well again in Mudville…

Some people used whatever adapter they were provided and did what they had to do to made it work. There are many talented people on this forum. The first step in a problem solution is first determining if there is a problem and then as trainguytom mentioned to keeping things simple. If it ain't broke… I'm just looking to learn from people with experience and hope to one day transform a wooden 'hotdog' into an Xmas ornament one day on one of my Shopsmiths.

In the service, we used to say measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, & cut with an axe… <smile> I can be a detail person when I need to be, but I honestly prefer to keep things simple. I learned long ago, if one understands the basic concepts/details, it makes it easy to catch mistakes before they happen. I'd hate to be on the rocket that missed the moon, but then perhaps that was the intention. <Now I have that song "Rocket Man" playing in my head & won't stop> I hate when that happens!

I'd rather use true North than magnetic North which varies with location on the Earth. The magnetic declination is 20 degrees in Maine or 0 degrees or so in Western Florida and changes each year. I think GPS has made life simpler for navigators, but then that's only good for use on Earth. I guess some type of celestial navigation might be better when shooting for the moon… But how to make that rhyme? <smile>

I think we all benefit when there is a mixture of guys with broad vision vs guys who really dig in and look at every tiny detail. I have been bitten by more little things than I care to remember. I do as necessary or I imagine I might be in some type of therapy <smile>. My next door neighbor is a broad thinking person & we rely on each other.

The Teknatool manual states some sort of locking must be used if lathe is capable of operating in reverse mode. The manual- talk about being detailed! I prefer a simple setup guide which usually comes with anything I buy and it have maybe 6 pictures to get something up & going.

These woodworking tools can result in serious injury if someone has no idea what they're doing or they try to force something like the guy who ended up seriously injured on a Ryobi table saw which is causing some states to consider mandating the SawStop-give me a break. But that is my opinion. http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manu ... Manual.pdf

My DC motor 10E/ERs & PowerPro headstocks have reverse as do the Mark V motors Bill Mayo modified for people with a switch for reverse operation. I'm not sure if anyone commented on problem(s) in operating in reverse. I noted a comment by Bill that he would add a couple set screws where he thought needed. Bill is a very talented machinist; I'm not. I think Ed must have some machinist experience as well.

I attempted to keep this short, but I have trouble with brevity <smile> and 'little things.' I just found a 12/31/12 post of mine on this same subject where I sort of made a New Years resolution not to discuss this subject anymore. Looks like I blew that one.
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthr ... 933&page=2

My memory is playing games because I read a post on that old thread which addressed allsas in WA having a problem with the set screw loosening. Eye, ye, ye… I must of left my memory in the shop or someplace. Yikes! I just realized a place I hope no one else suggests… Reward offered!

[JPG]

I truely believe in Keep It Simple Stupid. Unnecessary 'complexity' really bugs me.

However when 'issues' arise, the devil is usually in the details.

In this case the devil was the angle of the set screw(we all learned a new 'detail' there), and the adapter needing a shoulder to butt up against. Add to that the metric mini setscrew.

What really concerns me is the risk exposure of anyone who does not have the 'corrected' hardware.

I am very impressed favorably with Teknatool's replacement efforts. IMHO that should be a 'forever' effort to anyone with a 'bad' adapter regardless of who/when originally purchased.

[dusty]

I truely believe in Keep It Simple Stupid. Unnecessary 'complexity' really bugs me.

However when 'issues' arise, the devil is usually in the details.

In this case the devil was the angle of the set screw(we all learned a new 'detail' there), and the adapter needing a shoulder to butt up against. Add to that the metric mini setscrew.

What really concerns me is the risk exposure of anyone who does not have the 'corrected' hardware.

I am very impressed favorably with Teknatool's replacement efforts. IMHO that should be a 'forever' effort to anyone with a 'bad' adapter regardless of who/when originally purchased.

What aspect of the G3 constitutes a risk factor? The normal setscrew in the G3 mates with the tapered flat on the shaft well down on the taper. The taper prevents the G3 from moving outward on the shaft and the flat prevents the G3 from rotating on the shaft.

Where is the perceived risk?

[pennview]

The threads on these chucks are of the right hand variety, so if you run the chuck in reverse, it's possible that the threads can unscrew. Remember that the adapter screws into the chuck body and the set screw in the adapter is what keeps it on the Shopsmith. I don't believe the problem exists with how the adapter mounts to the Shopsmith, but rather with how the adapter mounts to the chuck itself.

In the package that comes with the G3 chuck, at least the one I just received (not from Shopsmith), there were two leather "dots" together with a set screw, in addition to all the other stuff in the plastic bags. I assume the set screw locks the adapter to the chuck body and the leather dots are to be placed in the threaded hole before you tighten the set screw so you don't damage the threads, but then again I may be wrong about this.

If you have a PowerPro, you ought to check with Shopsmith about what Teknatool means when it says you've got to lock the thing if the lathe will reverse.

[dusty]

The threads on these chucks are of the right hand variety, so if you run the chuck in reverse, it's possible that the threads can unscrew. Remember that the adapter screws into the chuck body and the set screw in the adapter is what keeps it on the Shopsmith. I don't believe the problem exists with how the adapter mounts to the Shopsmith, but rather with how the adapter mounts to the chuck itself.

In the package that comes with the G3 chuck, at least the one I just received (not from Shopsmith), there were two leather "dots" together with a set screw, in addition to all the other stuff in the plastic bags. I assume the set screw locks the adapter to the chuck body and the leather dots are to be placed in the threaded hole before you tighten the set screw so you don't damage the threads, but then again I may be wrong about this.

If you have a PowerPro, you ought to check with Shopsmith about what Teknatool means when it says you've got to lock the thing if the lathe will reverse.

Just a thought but the G3 was around before the word came out that the PowerPro would operate in reverse as well as the normal forward mode.

One has to wonder, if this is a problem, was it part of the specification provided to Teknatool. I would think that Teknatool has this under control. Don't the majority of the lathes that utilize a chuck like the G3 operate in reverse.

Yes, I have the little leather buttons and they are used as you describe.

[JPG]

The 'risk' AIUI, is the loosening of the set screws.

Now the tapered chuck is all well and dandy, but that is a secondary(backup) feature.

Add to that the 'inadequate' support due to the short adapter.

Tis impossible to get too specific here since there are different adapter designs from different sources.

I think part of the 'problem' is the metric set screws. My guess is that they were not getting tight enough when using 'fractional inch' wrenches.

Chucks being loose constitutes a risk.