"A" head stock question

triumph_tech · Post by **triumph_tech** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:07 pm

I recently aquired a 1954 Greenie ( I have caught the sickness, this is #3) and have been going through it doing maintenance from years of neglect and a previous owner that didn't have a clue about which end of a screwdriver to hold. Other than lack of lubrication I found the idler shaft eccentric in backwards ( slot toward the inside). This is the first early headstock I have taken appart and noticed there is no screw and washer holding the idler shaft bearing from moving out (48 and 49 on the parts diagram) on this unit. What other than the clamping bolt holds this bearing/shaft in place? I also found a different key , one without a kink in it and a shaft without a hole for the kink to fit in. Where do I get parts for this set up since Shopsmith has change this shaft eccentric set up?

charlese · Post by **charlese** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:03 pm

As you know the key with a hook guided the control sheave. I would but a complete control sheave unit from Shopsmith. They can also answer your eccentric question.

Also, I'd bet JPG (Red) can answer your questions.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:50 pm

The Greenie used two "U" shaped metal plates that the eccentric bolt goes through and the metal plates has a lip on each side to hold the eccentric bushing in place. You must have these plates to prevent the idler shaft from exiting the headstock casing. I have extra plates available as they are not available from Shopsmith. I have drilled and tapped for the later model screw and body washer to hold the eccentric bushing but the plates work great. I make some modifications to the "A" headstock casing to allow oiling (by adding a 3 1/8" hole under the LOGO cover) and other improvements.

The early Greenie headstock Control Sheave and Floating Sheave had no oil holes. Also the upper Drive Sheeve had a solid pulley vs the later Gilmer clutch which I recommend using. I have used Greenie headstocks for most of my personal Shopsmiths and I have a lot of knowledge and an extensive collection of reconditioned parts for the Greenie. Please contact me for information and help. I am currently updating and rebuilding an early 1954 Greenie headstock this week for a Forum member.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:11 pm

charlese wrote:As you know the key with a hook guided the control sheave. I would but a complete control sheave unit from Shopsmith. They can also answer your eccentric question.

Also, I'd bet JPG (Red) can answer your questions.

The screw that clamps (squeezes) the casting around the eccentric also retained two flat plates that retained the eccentric bushing and bearing. Bill Mayo discards those plates and taps threads for a screw and fender washer similar to the B and C headstock castings. If you do not have the plates(two that are identical) the added screw and washer may be your only option.

The early headstocks did not have an oil hole in the control sheave hub.

I am not aware the early greenies did not have a 'kinked' key for the control sheave. Perhaps the clueless PO replaced it with a straight key.

I believe the 'current' kinked key has not changed since day one. The fixed idler sheave must be removed to replace the 'kinked' key. A very small retaining clip positions the fixed sheave on the shaft. The kink goes into a depression in the shaft keyway inside the fixed sheave bore. The kinked key is positioned with the kinked end dropping into the depression(in the shaft keyway) and the fixed sheave traps the key. Removing the very small retaining clip to move the fixed sheave on the shaft can be problematic(especially if it is all crudded up).

I do not recall there being a difference in the key/shaft of an early gilmer, but I do not recall if I have had one disassembled that far either. So a straight key may be 'normal'. With the fixed sheave off the shaft, the relief for the kink should be apparent if it is there.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:09 pm

Yes, the early Greenie had a straight idler shaft key for the Control Sheave. This key is trapped so cannot go anywhere. I would rough up the shaft side of the key and use LocTite when tapping it into place. Never seen a problem from using the straight key. It appears Magna upgraded the headstock in late 1954 or early 1955 for the Drive Sleeve, Control and Floating Sheaves and idler shaft key as I have seen about 5 of these early headstocks vs about 25 of the later "A" headstocks. I have not found when they went to the "B" headstock but would guess around 1957.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:20 pm

billmayo wrote:Yes, the early Greenie had a straight idler shaft key for the Control Sheave. This key is trapped so cannot go anywhere. I would rough up the shaft side of the key and use LocTite when tapping it into place. Never seen a problem from using the straight key. It appears Magna upgraded the headstock in late 1954 or early 1955 for the Drive Sleeve, Control and Floating Sheaves and idler shaft key as I have seen about 5 of these early headstocks vs about 25 of the later "A" headstocks. I have not found when they went to the "B" headstock but would guess around 1957.

Thank You Bill!

I have now learned my 'new thing fer today' and it is still early! Also restored my faith in recollections of past activities(never seen a straight key before).

triumph_tech · Post by **triumph_tech** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:02 pm

This is what I found when I opened the machine up, the eccentric is obvioulsy in backwards but the weird pinch bolt caught my attention too. After reading about the u shaped retainers I remembered seeing these in the box of parts and manuals that came with the MkV, are these the retainers that are supposed to be installed? I compared the idler shaft that was in the machine to one from a newer machine and the keyways are cut different. This machine has a keyway without the depression for the kink and it also gets shallow at the gilmer drive end and it stops before the end of the shaft at the control sheave to keep it from walking out the end. Thanks Bill for the info, will be contacting you for some parts to bring this SS back from the dead. Great Forum!
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JPG · Post by **JPG** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:17 pm

triumph_tech wrote:This is what I found when I opened the machine up, the eccentric is obvioulsy in backwards but the weird pinch bolt caught my attention too. After reading about the u shaped retainers I remembered seeing these in the box of parts and manuals that came with the MkV, are these the retainers that are supposed to be installed? I compared the idler shaft that was in the machine to one from a newer machine and the keyways are cut different. This machine has a keyway without the depression for the kink and it also gets shallow at the gilmer drive end and it stops before the end of the shaft at the control sheave to keep it from walking out the end. Thanks Bill for the info, will be contacting you for some parts to bring this SS back from the dead. Great Forum!

Those be de ones. The longer finger faces the open end of the headstock.

FWIW, I do not like the screw in the clamp. A flat head screw needs to be used to spread the clamp force over a larger area than the funky flat head screw shown. I would absolutely replace it!!! When doing so put the head on the side with the access hole.

Do not be a gorilla when tightening that screw. A split ring lock washer under the nut will provide a good torque indicator. Tighten until the lock washer becomes fully flattened and stop(more wisdom from the man in Plant City).

triumph_tech · Post by **triumph_tech** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:28 pm

Is there supposed to be a spacer or washers along with those u shaped retainers? They rattle back in forth in the slot even when the pinch bolt ( a new one) tightened down snug. Maybe I got the wrong idea how these work, anybody got a photo of what the looks like correctly installed? Bill, aren't you working on an early A headstock? I also don't like the feel of the idler shaft bearing, anybody have an opinion on the aftermarket shafts from eBay or do I just order the new style (with the split eccentric) from SS and wait weeks for it to arrive?

joshh · Post by **joshh** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:26 pm

triumph_tech wrote:I also don't like the feel of the idler shaft bearing, anybody have an opinion on the aftermarket shafts from eBay or do I just order the new style (with the split eccentric) from SS and wait weeks for it to arrive?

See here for discussion: https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=13623