Cleaning up Greenie, questions about quill rebuilding

fitzhugh · Post by **fitzhugh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:15 pm

I'm tearing down and cleaning up the greenie I got for free with an 82. a few weeks ago. I cleaned and polished all of it except the headstock, then last night took the headstock all apart. I've got some questions about the quill and what to do with it...

On the Sawdust Sessions video about quill repair he said that if it was a single bearing quill a probe would nearly reach the far end before bottoming out. In my case a screwdriver reaches only about three inches into the quill tube before hitting what looks like a bearing, but there is way too much play, suggesting it is either A) not really a bearing B) no longer a bearing but a bunch of crunched up pieces. Seeing as this machine was very poorly cared for I doubt the previous owners spent money on oil, let alone an upgrade.

So first question: what am I hitting?
[ATTACH]24773[/ATTACH]
Screwdriver tip shows how deep it goes inside tube

[ATTACH]24772[/ATTACH]
This shows ugly play in shaft. (Animated, so refresh if not showing, or you may have animations off. Only plays a few times so it doesn't drive you crazy)

Second question: I don't have access to a press. Can I take the quill shaft and drive shaft apart, and more importantly, get them back together? I've searched but haven't found anything.

Last question: all the teeth throughout the machine look fine except the gilmer drive teeth on the idler. The gilmer belt was broken, which is why the last owner thought it was a total loss and included it for the price of removing it. The wear looks OK to me, but I wouldn't know:

[ATTACH]24774[/ATTACH]
I cleaned off the teeth a little but left the rest of the crud on. How do I clean it off without forcing dirt deeper? Guess that was the lastest last question.

Thanks,
Fitzhugh

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:46 pm

More than likely it's a single bearing quill on a gilmer drive SS. What your probably hitting is a washer that in a couple inches. I THINK Bill Mayo may have 2 bearing quills for a gilmer drive.

Also he can rebuild your gilmer drive or anything else ya might need.

rpd · Post by **rpd** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:17 pm

fitzhugh wrote:I'm tearing down and cleaning up the greenie I got for free with an 82. a few weeks ago. I cleaned and polished all of it except the headstock, then last night took the headstock all apart. I've got some questions about the quill and what to do with it...

On the Sawdust Sessions video about quill repair he said that if it was a single bearing quill a probe would nearly reach the far end before bottoming out. In my case a screwdriver reaches only about three inches into the quill tube before hitting what looks like a bearing, but there is way too much play, suggesting it is either A) not really a bearing B) no longer a bearing but a bunch of crunched up pieces. Seeing as this machine was very poorly cared for I doubt the previous owners spent money on oil, let alone an upgrade.

So first question: what am I hitting?

Second question: I don't have access to a press. Can I take the quill shaft and drive shaft apart, and more importantly, get them back together? I've searched but haven't found anything.

Last question: all the teeth throughout the machine look fine except the gilmer drive teeth on the idler. The gilmer belt was broken, which is why the last owner thought it was a total loss and included it for the price of removing it. The wear looks OK to me, but I wouldn't know:

I cleaned off the teeth a little but left the rest of the crud on. How do I clean it off without forcing dirt deeper? Guess that was the lastest last question.

Thanks,
Fitzhugh

If you haven’t run across it already here is a link to mickyd's thread

Restoration Progress On My 1955 Greenie .

Very well documented and worth a read.

1. There is a spacer on the shaft just past the splines.

[ATTACH]24775[/ATTACH]

2. The quill is not hard to disassemble. Here is a YouTube video by Skip (MKCtools) showing how it is done with a 10ER quill, the greenie quill will be the same except no rear bearing.
10ER Quill Bearing Replacement

3. The teeth don't look that bad to me. Because the Gilmer drive can't slip if there is a jam (like the poly-v belt can) there is a clutch built into the drive. To disassemble the clutch you will neet a bearing separator/puller. Mickyd also did thread on that topic.

Gilmer Drive System - Cleaning, inspecting, testing.

4.Easy to clean when it is disassembled

fitzhugh · Post by **fitzhugh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:20 pm

That makes more sense, it being a washer. I can't imagine that much play even in a broken bearing, nor the previous owner(s) having invested in such. It does look like a bearing from what I can see - under the dirt there are concentric rings like a bearing would have, so I had to wonder when it was where the video said a second bearing is.

Now, how do I clean it up? Do I disassemble it? Can I do so without a press? If not, how do I clean it without drying out the bearings or forcing gunk into them?

This is my "spare" machine for now, just working on cleaning it up first so I break stuff on it instead. The other is newer, larger motor, etc. but still single bearing. I probably will get a two bearing quill for that one at some point but this one will remain this way for the forseeable future.

Thanks,
Fitzhugh

dgreen810 · Post by **dgreen810** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:35 pm

Hi

You are attacking the quill problem from the wrong end. Take an awl or sharp pointed knife, remove the putty from the aluminum collar which will expose a allen head set screw. Take your 5/32" allen wrench and remove the set screw. Take the aluminum collar off. You will need to remove the retainer snap ring. Put a board on the spline end and drive the spline shaft out the other end with a hammer. The bearing will come out with the shaft.

DG

fitzhugh · Post by **fitzhugh** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:14 pm

Ron, I didn't refresh the page so although my post came after yours I hadn't seen it. Thanks for those links, that will be great help and something to spend time on while on a forced separation from the project for a few days -in-laws for Easter.
DG, I wasn't clear... I had not tried to pull it apart that way, I was just looking out over. I'm just concerned about reassembly because I recall reading about needing a press to do so but don't recall where. I'll read up before having a chance to start on out again.

Thank you
Fitzhugh

rcplaneguy · Post by **rcplaneguy** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:30 pm

Check out my quill rebuilding thread.:

http://shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=14380

I did buy a bearing remover/installing tool from harbor freight. Very inexpensive ($30 after coupon).

http://t.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-93980.html

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:59 am

rcplaneguy wrote:Check out my quill rebuilding thread.:

http://shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=14380

I did buy a bearing remover/installing tool from harbor freight. Very inexpensive ($30 after coupon).

http://t.harborfreight.com/bearing-separator-and-puller-set-93980.html

I have used and am still using this Harbor Freight bearing remover/installing kit over many years without any problems. One of the best tools they sell.

dgreen810 · Post by **dgreen810** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:17 am

Fitzhugh

You don't need a press if you have a bench vise. After a new bearing is installed on the quill shaft, it can be bumped back into the quill with little effort using a deep well socket so you are bumping the inner race of the bearing. A short piece of black pipe works OK too. Be sure you are bumping the inner race otherwise you can damage the bearing.

By the way the quill on the MK V is not made like the quill on a 10ER like the video referred to. The splined shaft comes out of the quill from the table end after you remove the snap ring and goes back in reverse.

DG

fitzhugh · Post by **fitzhugh** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:34 pm

Thank you all, this is a big help.
Any suggestions on removing bearings with a vise? I can see pressing them back in if I had a decent sized bench vise. As it stands, I just have a rather small one but seems I could use a bar clamp to press the socket or pipe. So, getting them back on seems easier that removing them.

I don't think I can currently afford the tool and the parts I need, having already spent money to get the machines (budget is very tight). Of course, if needed I'll get it when I can - the other machine works fine, though I'll no doubt find things to replace when I tear it down next. In fact, I think I'll finish cleaning and just reassemble this one and then work on the 80s model since I can probably get by with spending less on it. The greenie needs a belt, bearing, cord, at least. I won't mind taking it apart again later when I can afford parts and tools - they're so nicely made. That said, I'm still quite interested in suggestions on pulling bearings without the tool.