Truing, As Best You Can, Shopsmith Table Tops

[jsburger]

Now I know where it went! I have been looking for a Carriage that I purchased off EBay and I can not find it.

Very funny

Also somewhere along the line SS made a change. The one with the slit is the bad one and it is from my original machine that I bought new in 1984-85. The shorty and the dedicated drill press have the slit those and the one without the slit were bought on eBay. Vintage unknown.

[dusty]

I'm confused, John. Which Carriages have the slit? The good ones or the bad ones or is there a mixture?

For information only - none of mine have the slit.

[jsburger]

John, don't tear anything down without taking a real close look at that spare Carriage. If you simply peer into the Way Tube bores you can see that there is a definite difference when comparing the left end to the right end of the bore. The bores are not done incorrectly. The difference in the thickness of the casting (at the top of the bores) is the way the Carriage was designed.

With this Carriage sitting here in front of me, I am trying to devise a simple way to ascertain that the SPT bores are properly situated with reference to the Way Tube bores. If only I was back in a machine shop. I so miss those precision test beds.

Yes, I understand about the bores. I replaced the carriage. My wife helped me remove the head stock. SURPRISE.. I forgot to disconnect the lift assist. No problem, we caught the way tubes before they slammed upright. No harm done.

The table is now parallel to the way tubes and square to the blade. However the jury is still out. I did the extension table alignment twice with the same bad results when switching ends. Yes the extension table tubes are parallel. At full extension with the head stock removed four tubes top and bottom the same.

I used my analog angle gauge on the way tubes, main table tubes and aux table tubes. I had my wife read it and everything is square. A Wixey digital gauge IS on order.

I suspect a twist to the main table but the geometry escapes me at the moment and some of the measurement/deviations don't make sense. When the Wixey arrives I will start again.

Another option is to try the table on the shorty. I will wait for the Wixey.

[jsburger]

I'm confused, John. Which Carriages have the slit? The good ones or the bad ones or is there a mixture?

For information only - none of mine have the slit.

The one on the shorty has the slit bought on eBay. The one on the dedicated drill press has the slit bought on eBay. They are both good. The one on the MK 7 originally bought new by me in 85 as a 510 has the slit and it is bad. The extra one with out the slit was bought on eBay.

[Ed in Tampa]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

[dusty]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

You know the rules. We need pictures. Actually a movie would be better.

[jsburger]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

If you are talking about the connector tubes between the tables then yes. They will almost always fit since the hole in the rails is slightly larger than the tube and the tubes are not perfectly straight so you can rotate them to start them in the rail.

We are talking about putting a straight edge on the table tops and having them co-planer from end to end when you switch ends without any external forces.

In this case I think the discussion is more about figuring out the mechanics and the geometry of what is going on rather than saying the accuracy of the SS is inadequate. I think we can all agree that the SS accuracy is perfectly adequate regardless of this discussion.

[JPG]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

You know the rules. We need pictures. Actually a movie would be better.

If the sawdust session is the one I recall, he did the same thing as the video discussed earlier. Both correct 'apparent' twist by using a single table as the indicator. I consider using the table mount as a reference to be preferable.

In any event, adjusting that set screw for any other purpose(such as shaft alignment) is not good.

Ditto rotating the end casting to align shafts. That should only be done to make the rip fence parallel on the left after adjusting it parallel to the miter gauge slots on the right end.

Now that the spt mounting tubes are eccentric there is no reason to do either of those things to align shafts. Besides the eccentric mounting of the idler shaft creates misalignment. The mounting tubes should be the only method to adjust to the idler shaft.

See base alignment thread for pix! http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maint ... 16904.html

[dusty]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

If you are talking about the connector tubes between the tables then yes. They will almost always fit since the hole in the rails is slightly larger than the tube and the tubes are not perfectly straight so you can rotate them to start them in the rail.

We are talking about putting a straight edge on the table tops and having them co-planer from end to end when you switch ends without any external forces.

In this case I think the discussion is more about figuring out the mechanics and the geometry of what is going on rather than saying the accuracy of the SS is inadequate. I think we can all agree that the SS accuracy is perfectly adequate regardless of this discussion.

If you use stop collars on the Extension Tables, you may be having the same experience that I did yesterday.

I aligned the Extension Table to the Main Table with the Headstock moved all the way to the right and with connector tubes inserted into the rails. Everything looked good so I tightened the nuts that secure the Extension Table to the Extension Table Base (504273). With that done, I moved the Extension Table to the other end, slide the Headstock and Carriage to the left and checked for level (coplanar table tops).

No cigar.

The Extension Table was about 1/2" - 3/4" too high. Back to the other end with the Extension Table. It checks out fine. Tables check level with the Wixey. A straight edge across the tables looks good. The stop collar is tight in the correct location. Confused! I move the Extension Table back to the left side and recheck. Same problem. Still confused, I decided to go to bed.

Started the next day with the same results. Nope, this has got to be operator error. Everything checks and that can't be. Something does not check. Got that, John. OPERATOR ERROR. It has to be.

Break the entire system down and start over.

The very first thing you need to do is validate the tables and then square the Main Table to the blade. Do this meticulously. It is absolutely imperative that the Main Table be square to the blade (no tilt) and that the miter tracks be parallel to the blade (no skew).

Next I would mount an Extension Table in the right hand side and loosen all four of the nuts securing the table. Make the table loose enough to move around. Set it for a height that approximates that of the Main Table. Side the Carriage to the right so that the right edge of the Main Table almost touched the left hand side of the Extension Table. Slide the front extension tube into the rails of both the extension table and the main table. Tighten the thumb screws on the rails. Now do the same with the rear side. At this point, the tables should be co-planar as this is established by the rails and the extension tubes. All that needs to be done is to position the Extension Table Base vertically (if it is not already there) and secures all of the nuts and bolts that hold the Extension Table. I now use a stop collar on the Extension Table Bases to establish this height. John taught me that during this thread.

If this has been done correctly, you can move this Extension Table to the left side, slide the Headstock and Carriage to the left and insert the Extension Tubes. The Extension Tubes should slide FREELY into the rails. If there is ANY binding, something is not correct.

All that is left to do is another Extension Table for the other end. If this went well, the Extension Tables can be used at either end. Some minor tweaking may be needed depending on how picky you are.

Start with the Main Table total alignment and end with a verification that that alignment is still dead on.

Yes, you need to loosen the stop collars before you attempt to make any table height adjustments.

[jsburger]

I hope when this thread is completed someone will summarize the information.
For what it is worth I can switch my Aux table from the left to right and have the tubes line up on my 520. I aligned it as Nick taught us back in a saw dust session.

If you are talking about the connector tubes between the tables then yes. They will almost always fit since the hole in the rails is slightly larger than the tube and the tubes are not perfectly straight so you can rotate them to start them in the rail.

We are talking about putting a straight edge on the table tops and having them co-planer from end to end when you switch ends without any external forces.

In this case I think the discussion is more about figuring out the mechanics and the geometry of what is going on rather than saying the accuracy of the SS is inadequate. I think we can all agree that the SS accuracy is perfectly adequate regardless of this discussion.

If you use stop collars on the Extension Tables, you may be having the same experience that I did yesterday.

I aligned the Extension Table to the Main Table with the Headstock moved all the way to the right and with connector tubes inserted into the rails. Everything looked good so I tightened the nuts that secure the Extension Table to the Extension Table Base (504273). With that done, I moved the Extension Table to the other end, slide the Headstock and Carriage to the left and checked for level (coplanar table tops).

No cigar.

The Extension Table was about 1/2" - 3/4" too high. Back to the other end with the Extension Table. It checks out fine. Tables check level with the Wixey. A straight edge across the tables looks good. The stop collar is tight in the correct location. Confused! I move the Extension Table back to the left side and recheck. Same problem. Still confused, I decided to go to bed.

Started the next day with the same results. Nope, this has got to be operator error. Everything checks and that can't be. Something does not check. Got that, John. OPERATOR ERROR. It has to be.

Break the entire system down and start over.

The very first thing you need to do is validate the tables and then square the Main Table to the blade. Do this meticulously. It is absolutely imperative that the Main Table be square to the blade (no tilt) and that the miter tracks be parallel to the blade (no skew).

Next I would mount an Extension Table in the right hand side and loosen all four of the nuts securing the table. Make the table loose enough to move around. Set it for a height that approximates that of the Main Table. Side the Carriage to the right so that the right edge of the Main Table almost touched the left hand side of the Extension Table. Slide the front extension tube into the rails of both the extension table and the main table. Tighten the thumb screws on the rails. Now do the same with the rear side. At this point, the tables should be co-planar as this is established by the rails and the extension tubes. All that needs to be done is to position the Extension Table Base vertically (if it is not already there) and secures all of the nuts and bolts that hold the Extension Table. I now use a stop collar on the Extension Table Bases to establish this height. John taught me that during this thread.

If this has been done correctly, you can move this Extension Table to the left side, slide the Headstock and Carriage to the left and insert the Extension Tubes. The Extension Tubes should slide FREELY into the rails. If there is ANY binding, something is not correct.

All that is left to do is another Extension Table for the other end. If this went well, the Extension Tables can be used at either end. Some minor tweaking may be needed depending on how picky you are.

Start with the Main Table total alignment and end with a verification that that alignment is still dead on.

Yes, you need to loosen the stop collars before you attempt to make any table height adjustments.

I did it that way twice yesterday with the same results. Since I have two extension tables I aligned one on the right and the other one on the left. All three tables were dead on and co-planer with the straight edge, square to the blade and miter tracks. Then I swapped the tables end for end. The left hand table was tilted to the right compared to the main table. The right hand edge was below the straight edge about 1/16" both front and back. The right hand table had about the same tilt to the left BUT the really weird part was that when the front of the right hand table was at the same height as the main table the back of the table was about 1/8" low. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Nothing on that machine is that far out to cause that.

I did the alignment twice. The second time I loosened all the aux table nuts completely and ran them up so the tables sat close to the brackets with just two threads showing above the top nuts to make room for adjustment. Exactly the same result. Really confused since they were not that way when I first started down this road.

Wixey is on the way and will be here Monday. Then we will start over again.